Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: wagner@karazm.math.uh.edu (David Wagner) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Preaching to the dead? Message-ID: Date: 6 Dec 90 09:18:12 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: University of Houston -- Department of Mathematics Lines: 86 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article wagner@karazm.math.uh.edu (David Wagner) writes: >[This is a discussion of I Pet 4:6, which talks about Christ having >preached "to them that are dead." At first glance, it seems to imply >that they got a second chance after dead. David believes that because >it says "are dead" and not "were dead", it is not talking about people >who had physically died. I pointed out that this distinction isn't >present in the Greek, which simply says "the gospel was preached to >the dead." --clh] > Well, here I am, following up to my own post. I had asked my pastor about this passage yesterday, and he answered me today. He explained it to my satisfaction, but the answer is somewhat technical, as you might expect. I'll try to give you my understanding of it, but I'd feel more comfortable with a written exegesis in front of me. "For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to [those who are now] dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit." Let's discard for the moment, the words 'those who are now', which seem to have been inserted for clarification. Let's look at the rest of the sentence. The context is Christians living in a world of sin. The unbelievers around them 'think it strange that you do not plunge with them into the same flood of dissipation, and they heap abuse on you. But they will have to be ready to give an account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead." It says the gospel 'was preached', (aorist passive) 'so that they (those preached to) might be judged according to men in regard to the body (sarki), but live (zosi) according to God in regard to the spirit. My pastor says 'sarki' means a body, but also what you do with your body, i.e., your works, or the works of the body. Then the meaning would be that 'they might be judged (by men) according to the life they lead among men, but live, (present active subjunctive) according to God, in regard to the spirit.' The preaching of the gospel produces faith, but it also produces christian love; love for God and love for humanity. This is shown by the life Christians lead. Their life is also a witness to the unbelievers around them. To some this witness works to their salvation, and to some it works for judgement. But it cannot work at all if the Christian is dead; he cannot be 'judged according to men' if he is dead. Some may think I am on thin ice here, but if we remember that when we die, our soul/spirit is separated from our body, then Peter cannot be talking about the preaching of the gospel to those who have no body. On the other hand, in 1 Peter 3:19, he writes of Christ preaching to the 'spirits in prison'. As I said in my previous article, 1 Peter 4:6, which speaks of the preaching of the gospel to those with bodies, cannot refer to Christ's preaching to the spirits in prison. A good parallel passage is 2 Cor 5:10: "For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad." I hope it is obvious to our learned readers that to be 'judged for the things done while in the body' does not not justified negate justificaion (being declared righteous) by grace (undeserved love) alone. Rather it means that the unbelievers are judged by their deeds, which are evil in the sight of the Lord, but that believers are judged by Christ's merits, which credited to them by faith, and their own works are set forth as an example to the unbelievers (Matt. 24:31-46). Needless to say, they can have no such works if they are not converted before they die. Possibly 'sarki' is used in 2 Cor 5:10 in the sense of 'things done while in the body', but I don't know. I suppose, going back to Peter 4:6, that one might construe Peter as talking about the body reunited with the soul at the resurrection, but that would make no sense, because then, for the believer, both body and soul live 'according to God', and there is no opportunity to witness to the unbelievers, for they are cast into the lake of fire for eternal punishment (Matt 24). I invite further responses. David H. Wagner a confessional Lutheran. My opinions and beliefs on this matter are disclaimed by The University of Houston. [It's not so clear to me that being judged is an experience reserved for unbelievers. I Cor 3:11-3:15 seems to suggest a judgement of some sort even for Christians. --clh]