Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!samsung!uunet!mcsun!ukc!warwick!covpoly!csg019 From: csg019@cck.cov.ac.uk (-~=Zaphod=~-) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga Subject: Re: Awesome! Now I am Pi**ed! Message-ID: <1990Dec7.102931.13623@cck.cov.ac.uk> Date: 7 Dec 90 10:29:31 GMT References: <1990Nov27.140432.6036@cck.cov.ac.uk> <21893@well.sf.ca.us> Organization: Coventry Polytechnic, Coventry, UK Lines: 86 In article <21893@well.sf.ca.us> farren@well.sf.ca.us (Mike Farren) writes: >csg019@cck.cov.ac.uk (Z*A*P*H*O*D) writes: >>Whoa! If you knew anything about the amiga's internals at all you would realise >>that it is *NOT* possible to do any of the things we have come to expect, like >>50 frames per second scrolling etc. > >Sorry, guy. I know the internals better than you do, I'd bet (my oldest copy >of the hardware docs predates Commodore's acquisition of Amiga), and know >damn well that it's quite possible to do *EVERYTHING* you have come to >expect without needing to trash the system, in all but the most strenuous >of cases. And none of the games I've seen, NONE of them, comes close to >needing that level of access. You can cooperate quite well with AmigaDOS, >and still get the total control of the system you need to do any damn thing >you'd like. Then, when you're done, you can give control back. The only >thing you'd break would be multitasking - and you can even allow that, by >letting your game be pausable. I know that, and i think it is pretty essential when testing a game, or after finishing from a demo. >An example: suppose you have a game which requires constant and continuous >access to the blitter and copper, and which needs to be sure that there are >no extraneous interrupts. When you start up, you allocate all of the memory >space you need from AmigaDOS, to make sure that the system knows that you are >going to be using that memory. You then shut down AmigaDOS (which you can do >quite completely, if you need to), and start up your game. While you're >running, you've got complete control of the system, and can do any damn thing >you want to. But at the same time, AmigaDOS is still there, in the background, >not doing anything. Stop your game, let AmigaDOS come back in control, and >you've allowed multitasking, you've avoided requiring a reboot, and everything >works just fine. I did n't imply completelty trashing the system, i meant that i think that is nigh on impossible to do a decent game using *ONLY* the OS calls from the GFX library's etc. As some people seem to think. I don't know where i have picked this "trash the system" tag up from, (maybe the old MFM code ;-) ) I don't pretent to be an ace coder, but i do know the basics at least. > >>rastports and scroll_raster functions, all for the sake of being able to run >>it on an A3000 with 4 gig's of RAM and a 100mz speed up board. > >So you don't use ScrollRaster (don't even know the right name of the >function, do you?) if you need more performance than that. I've used it >when I felt like it, and have avoided it when I wanted more performance. >No big deal. And neither option requires trashing the OS. > So what if i don't know the name? Big deal! >>I have NEVER *EVER* had any problems with games not running, thats probable >>because most of the best games (including blood money, menace, populous and >>elite) are written by UK programmers. And may "suffer(?)" the conversion to >>NTSC and 50hz. > >More suffer the conversion from whatever system the developers used to a >wider variety of amigas. Try Populous on a 68030. Go ahead. Or try >Shadow of the Beast on a number of different machines, and watch it crash >on most of them - as I did, when I tried to demonstrate "this wonderful >game" to them. Worked fine on my plain vanilla A2000, wouldn't work AT >ALL on any of their 1000s, souped up 500s, or 68030 machines. Sorry - >UK programmers aren't any better (or worse) than any others. > Point taken. >>I've never known anyone with a HD. It may be because the games that are >>written in the UK are geared to the UK market, and most people in the UK >>don't have hard drives and speed up boards. > >Just because you don't know them doesn't mean they don't exist, does it? >Why do you have it in for those of us who DO have hard drives, simply because >you don't know anyone who does? And why would anyone with any sense >write a game that was guaranteed not to sell to a number (however small) >of Amiga owners if they could have just as easily written one that could >sell to ALL of them? If they don't use their brains any better than that, >why should I believe that their code is going to be any more sensible? I did n't say thay they did n't exist did i? I implied that they are not as popular in the UK as in the US. I don't have it IN for anyone? Who do you think i am? The mafia? I agree that people should make games that should run on ALL config's. I also believe this flaming was well out of order, i was in NO way telling people to trash the system, i was merely pointing out that using OS routines for hi-speed gfx etc ain't fast enough. -- *********/// O O **A member of S.H.I.T. (Super High Intelegence Team)**///*** * /// u Fight, defeat and kill organized laming. /// * * \\\ /// --- Zaphod of Intuition csg019@uk.ac.cov.cck ok? \\\ /// * ****\\X//**********************************************************\\X//******