Path: utzoo!censor!geac!torsqnt!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wuarchive!rex!ames!dftsrv!amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov!xrtnt From: xrtnt@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Nigel Tzeng) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga Subject: Re: NeXT and Amiga3000UX Message-ID: <4128@dftsrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> Date: 7 Dec 90 16:17:59 GMT References: <9012040152.AA09539@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> <673@storm.UUCP> Sender: news@dftsrv.gsfc.nasa.gov Reply-To: xrtnt@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov Organization: NASA Goddard Space Flight Center - Greenbelt, MD, USA Lines: 103 News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4 In article <673@storm.UUCP>, bostrov@storm.UUCP (Vareck Bostrom) writes... ^In article <9012040152.AA09539@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> 91_bickingd@GAR.UNION.EDU ("Bicking, David") writes: [Lots'o interesting data removed for bandwith's sake] ^ ^I couldn't see actual heavy duty sci work being done on an ami/040, as ^that is getting close to your maximum cpu power, and you have to expand the ^graphics by a power of 10 to get workstation quality (IM TALKING res, not ^color. 4096 isn't bad). Also I haven't found any good optimization compilers This may be a silly question but wouldn't you tend to want to do your massive number crunching on a mainframe and use the workstation for display pruposes? While workstations are nice not much beats a Cray ;-). Anyway...a lot of the systems (at least those considered "leading edge") around here seem to be a big machine (say a power series Iris) that does the serious data massaging and leaves the display (and secondary massaging like smoothing etc) to workstations (say a personal iris or two). Being on a poorer project our main number cruncher was a Vax and the workstation machine are MacII (yep the originals). Both a kind of slow but get the job done. The only thing the Ami tends to lack is the resolution (which you pointed out ;-). ^for the Ami, and this leaves many of the programs that scientists run ^dead in the water. (when i say scientists, I mean scientists/engineers, etc.). ^Also, everywhere I go where there are workstations installed, I see Suns, ^NeXT's (on occasion), MIPS, DECs, IBM rs/6000's, but NEVER any amigas. I ^wonder why? Well, as of now, there is no Ami/Unix (though I have heard and No software. We picked the Mac just because NCSA Image was available as PD. It all depends on budget a lot of times. Had the Amiga had NCSA Image and a large selection of science software it might have been chosen instead. The CPU power of the same cost Ami would have been higher. It would have lost something in the resolution battle BUT for a lot of the skymaps the necesary resolution could be measured in millimeters and not pixels ;-). Unix is nice...but a lot of sites here still run VMS. To a certain extent Jobs is correct...the applications matter more than the OS. So long as the data can be transfered easily. ^seen samples of r4 on an ami) there is no 040 ami (once again, ive seen ^samples), mid to poor system through put, etc. An 030 machine just isn't ^a serious workstation, paticulary without unix. The NeXT IS a unix workstation, ^though up till receintly there has been no 040 for it, all along it has ^run unix. The problem that the high end Ami (or Mac for that matter) and mid range NeXTs have is that in many cases procurement of systems is on the breakpoint level. For instance I can run out and pick up a $2500 system at no hassle (low paper work involved and only a couple of signatures). Anything beyond that requires going through the whole procurement hassle (with a breakpoint at around 25k). So long as I stay below that next magic number my paperwork (and chasing superiors down) is the same. Therefore machines in that "class" is the range from $2501 to $25k. A lot of times I need to factor in periperals (I can easily spend 20k in a nice Mac...) so the PC level machines are competetive in certain environments (like office automation...Postscript printer...a nice scanner...hmmmm...I obviously need 8 megs to use MS Word...19inch monitor ;-). On the workstation level Personal Iris, Suns, NeXTs, Mac IIfx and A3000 are all at the same plateau. Needless to say if I'm only buying one system the NeXT, the Mac and the Ami are going to lose (remember...up to 25K it's all the same to me...I can fill in software and other little things with followup procurements in increments of $1000-$2500). Above the 25k level requires more work and more signatures (read as I need to justify why I need such a whiz bang system). These number may only be relevant at Goddard (I don't know the breakpoint levels at other installations) but I suspect they are similar. It's really funny in a lot of ways what you have to do to get the job done. A lot of times you buy a system piecemeal to scrape under an aribitrary limit (like the small procurement thing used to be 1K...). A motherboard here...a disk drive there...etc. Sometimes the question is whether the vendor will piecemeal the system for you so you can get the machine on time (procuements of systems at the 25K level is measured in months...at the $2k level in days or weeks...a big difference sometimes if you didn't plan well enough and find yourself in a crunch). Then it's a game to see if the procurement people catch you trying to sneak a system in that way. If they do then you can expect to have ANY small procurement request nixed until they forgive you ;-). Needless to say people don't try this without extreme need ;-). ^ ^Anyway, both have their uses. I LOVE the amiga to play games on. It is without ^a doubt the most devoloped games machine ever. It is fast (for a game machine), ^and can be used for other things besides games. ^ ^So...the end. ^> ^>> Jouni ^>-- ^>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=- ^>Dave Bicking Single Tasking????? Just say NO!!!! ^ ^Vareck Bostrom NT -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- // | Nigel Tzeng - STX Inc - NASA/GSFC COBE Project \X/ | xrtnt@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov | Amiga | Standard Disclaimer Applies: The opinions expressed are my own.