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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: ANS FORTH TECHNICAL COMMITTEE
Message-ID: <2081.UUL1.3#5129@willett.pgh.pa.us>
Date: 9 Dec 90 23:33:35 GMT
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Category 10,  Topic 2
Message 262       Sun Dec 09, 1990
B.RODRIGUEZ2 [Brad]          at 09:45 EST
 
>> No, Dennis, it means we've all given up.
 > Is this the same Brad that I had lunch with a few weeks ago?

Yes, it is, Dennis; it's just that I've hit my optimism limit, and cynicism is
coming to the fore.

Elizabeth asked me for my comments as I left the Detroit meeting, and I told
her I'd have to digest for a while.  I think I can now sum up the experience
in two sentences:
 1.  I found the X3J14 committee accomodating, but not responsive.
 2.  I won't be going to any more X3J14 meetings.

To wit: I no longer believe it possible for those outside the X3J14 committee
to influence the process.  I could write quite a long dissertation based upon
my notes from Detroit; suffice it to say that it is the committee's
_own_stated_position_ that they are no longer accepting substantive proposals.
The majority of outside proposals that are passed are cosmetic or
typographical, which caused me to report to our Ontario ANSI Review group that
we have acquired the status of proofreaders.  (_Inside_ proposals are another
matter; and yes, the distinction is subtly made.)

On the positive side, let me commend the group, and in particular Greg Bailey,
the TSC chair, for hospitality and accomodation.  They were willing to adjust
their schedule, and not once invoke the "two- week" rule, so that the Ontario
proposals could be aired while I was present.  I truly appreciated that.

But the fact remains, there is no point for me to attend future meetings.  My
attendance at Detroit accomplished no more than simply mailing the proposals
in would have.

Well, almost.  I'm glad to have attended _one_ meeting, so that I can critique
with some knowledge and authority.  I've heard so many "if you don't vote, you
shouldn't complain" comments -- a specious argument, by the way -- that I'm
happy to have earned my right to complain.

- Brad

P.S. Jax, I probably won't hack the dpANS to pieces.  First, my comments are
not the kind that are likely to carry weight with ANSI. (I commented elsewhere
that the ANSI guidelines favor improvement at the expense of standardization.)
Second, and more significant, I prefer "voting with my feet" -- it's easier to
ignore it than to fight it.  (And I appreciated your "camel" quip.)

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