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From: cseaman@sequent.UUCP (Chris "The Bartman" Seaman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.games
Subject: Re: FAUG demo of Powermonger by E.A. -- long review
Summary: Now, now, let's try to be reasonable.
Keywords: simply incredible
Message-ID: <48479@sequent.UUCP>
Date: 12 Dec 90 21:48:59 GMT
References: <1950@unlisys.in-berlin.de> <1990Dec5.110344.6364@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <9424@mirsa.inria.fr>
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Beaverton, OR
Lines: 115

buffa@kish.inria.fr (Michel Buffa) writes:
< farren@well.sf.ca.us (Mike Farren) writes:
< > colas@avahi.inria.fr (Colas Nahaboo) writes:
< > >PS: Just PLEASE stop bashing about non-use of OS resources. I think that by
< > >making it fast loading, without disk access during playing, and with no
< > >disk-based protection, Bullfrog is really trying to make life easier...
< > 
< > So what?  There's also no multitasking, and no hard drive.
< 
< Hard drive compatibility would have been great, but multitasking makes only
< bad games when animation speed is essential.

This is a valid point.  There are cases where animation speed can be
impaired by multitasking.  There is, however, an alternative to forcing
me to reboot after the game ends.  Why not simply return control of my
Amiga to me?

< > but that doesn't change the fact that it's just sloppy.  No disk accesses?
< > What the hell difference do disk accesses make, if you can limit them to
< > the times when there's going to be a break in the game action anyway?  I
< > presume that there are things like setup screens, option screens, and the
< > like, just like in Populous - so what do you lose by having those loaded
< > only when needed, since they are going to cause a break in the action
< > anyway?  And with the extra memory you've just gotten as a gift, you can
< > give me back my system, which is worth a few seconds delay any time, as
< > far as I'm concerned.
< 
< True.

I see that you agree with Mike here.  This is good.

< > Hell, at the very least they could check to see if the system's already
< > up, and run with overlays if they need to, and otherwise take over everything.
< > Even DPaint gives you the option of overlays or not.  But no - Bullfrog has
< > to decide FOR me what's right and proper.  Not to mention the fact that
< > they're going to be sitting there, letting most of MY memory go to waste,
< > idling away its time, and probably getting into trouble :-)
< 
< You compare Powermonger and Dpaint. Are you mad ??? I haven't got 5 megs of
< memory, and I don't want disk access only because one crazy programmer wrote
< his game so that people with a lot of memory won't have any disk access.

But above you agreed that disk access is alright, if it is limited to
'breaks in the action'.  What is it you are really trying to say?

< Powermonger is nice in the fact that it didn't make any disk acess once the
< games is started. Between a lot of disk access (overlays) and multitasking 
< (which I really don't care on my "normal" amiga) and people with a lot of
< memory happy, and no disk acess for everybody (more fun to play a game without
< disk access) and some Mike Farren's unhappy on the net, my choice is evident.

You are free to make your choices, but so am I.  I often choose not to
purchase a game because it does not fully support my system, such
as the 68000-bound (albeit popular) Immortal.

< And don't forget that in the world thare are 5/6 of Amiga 500 with 512k,
< single drive.

While this may be true, it is also true that those who can afford to
expand their Amigas are also more likely to be able to afford more
software (including games).

< HEY MIKE ! What games did you write so that you can give such "good" advices ?
< Did you write better games than Populous and Powermonger ? [ ... ]
< Why aren't you on the cover of a magazine ?

Now the gratuitous insults begin.  Whether Mike, or anyone else for
that matter, has written a 'better version of Populous' is irrelevent.
Mike has pointed out some valid problems with the arguments used by
those who would 'trash the OS'.  You have not addressed any of them.

< Tell us what good games you wrote. We'll make a vote, and if it seems for
< everybody that they are good games, then we will listen to you.

I would rather listen to Mike's intelligent remarks than to rantings
such as yours, hands down.

< Bullfrog wrote Populous, wrote Powermonger, Flood. They are all good games. Do
< you think they never thought about writing the game only using the Rom code,
< multitask, and so on... They are good programmers, they are not Dumb people.
< They certainly tried this before and discovered that making a good scrolling
< with the Scrollraster function is impossible, that multitasking games that use
< a lot of computing power are too slow on Amiga without accelerator cards.

I suspect that Bullfrog has never given any thought to multitasking,
expanded systems, overlays, or any other sensible extensions to their
products which just might expand their market.  You should also remember
that there are more games out there than blast-the-hideous-beast style
of shoot-em-up.  Many games DO multitask, DO give resources back, CAN BE
installed on a hard disk, AND can still run quite well on 68000-based
Amigas.

< You know mike, in 10k, you can put a lot of nice sound effects. I prefer
< programmers who give me good sound effects (like in Powermonger) than
< programmers who write a bad multitasking OS friendly game with poor sound
< effects. 

Why do you always speak in such extreme terms?  Is it impossible, in
your mind, to have a game with good sound effects, which also happens
to multitask (or at least give system resources back when it is
finished)?

< And don't forget, I want to know the games you wrote.

Why?  Do you wish to compare all the wonderful games you have written
with those written by Mike?  If so, then 'put up or shut up'.

Regards,
Chris

-- 
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