Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!ucsd!ucrmath!rhyde
From: rhyde@ucrmath.ucr.edu (randy hyde)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Re: High level language "fools"  (was:Re: Stellar 7 re-release)
Message-ID: <10627@ucrmath.ucr.edu>
Date: 15 Dec 90 16:39:42 GMT
References: <930@redford.UUCP> <10621@ucrmath.ucr.edu> <10136@darkstar.ucsc.edu>
Organization: University of California, Riverside
Lines: 44

>> all computer majors have to take at least one class in assembly.

This is the case at most universities today.  Alas, the classes are
rarely taught by "enlightened" instructors.  I begged for the job at
UCR because I was tired of listening to the instructor begin the class
with "You'll never use this stuff again because assembly is obsolete,
but it's required so we'll fumble our way through it."  Furthermore,
after this *ONE* class which turned the students completely off, they
rarely get the chance to use assembly again.  I, for one, have been
attempting to reverse that trend.  I require my operating system
students to use assembly language, I require my software engineering
students to use assembly language, and I require my microcomputer
lab students to use assembly language.  The only place where I wimp out
is in my compiler class.  There I let the students generate three-address
style code in "C" rather than assembly.  Compilers is sufficiently
complex that I don't need the added complexity of weak assembly language
students on top of every thing else.

>> Are you teaching it in 6502..?

Heavens no!  6502 assembly language is not a very marketable skill these
days.  Although I have the academic freedom to teach whatever I like, I
can guarantee you that it takes a considerable effort to get these students
interested in assembly language in the first place.  One of my motivations
is that there are 50 million PCs out there and that there is considerble
need (employment) for 80x86 assembly language programmers.  The 65xxx
family wouldn't cut it here.  OTOH, the second quarter of my microcomputer
lab does deal with low-end processors.  Alas, the 6502 is not low-end
enough to qualify here (we're talking 8048s and 8051s).  The third quarter
is dedicated to high-end chips like the 32000 from National (the first
quarter, which is the only one required to graduate, uses the 8088).

>> Now that would be a class to take!

I would love to teach a 65816 assembly language class.  I used to teach 6502
in many computer stores around So Cal.  Perhaps some of you have even seen
my book on 6502 assembly language.  Alas, I'd probably only get two or three
students taking such a class.  I doubt I could sell it to the university.
65816 assembly language is difficult.  The M & X bits are exceeded only by
segmentation in complexity to a beginning student (we don't *EVEN* get into
segmentation in the assembly language class).  However, anyone who can make
it through an 816 assembly language course would have to be good.

*** Randy Hyde