Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!hellgate.utah.edu!jaguar.utah.edu!mike From: mike%jaguar.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Mike Hibler) Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp Subject: Re: Dream System (really: HP work at University of Utah) Keywords: Rolls Royce, but poor marketing... Message-ID: <1990Dec12.202128.11906@hellgate.utah.edu> Date: 13 Dec 90 03:21:28 GMT References: <54@gauss.mmlai.UUCP> <25849@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU> <1990Dec11.193127.23709@actrix.gen.nz> <25876@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU> Organization: University of Utah CS Dept Lines: 144 > jlol@REMUS.EE.BYU.EDU (Jay Lawlor) > > > HP's getting better in this area. You can't catch up all at once. > > Otherwise you'd have bug distribution lists the size of Sun's lists. > > bb@sandbar.cis.ufl.edu (Brian Bartholomew) > > I have heard reports that HP is funding some academic institution in > Utah to port true BSD to the 400 line. Jay, could this perhaps be > your institution? If so, are you able (legally and properly) to make > a progress report to this newsgroup? At the University of Utah (you know, the "other" football team in Utah) we have been involved in BSD work on the HPs for quite some time and, more recently, Mach work as well. A synopsis and then a detailed list follows. It should be noted that all of this work has been generously supported (or at least condoned :-) by HP. Here is the Reader's Digest version for those in a hurry, a more detailed account follows: 300/400 4.3 BSD in production use, available from Utah or Mt Xinu 300/400 4.4 BSD under development, support will be on 4.4 tape 300/400 Mach 2.5 in use at Utah, no distribution (yet) 300/400 Mach 3.0 will probably happen Real Soon Now 800 4.3 BSD in use at Utah, cannot distribute right now 800 Mach 3.0 just starting to run, hope to distribute and a couple of other items of interest: 800 GCC robust, fairly good code, ftp from jaguar.utah.edu 800 GAS/GDB running, will be distributed when ready [ details follow ] First, the 300/400 680x0 series work. Even though our emphasis has shifted to the 800 PA-RISC machines, we still do a significant amount of work here since we have over 100 320/350/340/360/370/345/375/425/433 machines in the department. 1. 4.3 BSD. This started in 1987 with a 4.3 port to the 200 series done at Berkeley. We added 300 support, more device drivers, HP-UX binary compatibility, and integrated the 4.3bsd+NFS (Sun's NFS 3.0 in 4.3) work done at Wisconsin. We have continued to evolve this system with significant code contributions from other Universities and individuals and it is the operating system run on the majority of our 300/400 systems. It runs on all 68020 and 68030 based machines except the 332 and support is planned for the 68040 machines. It contains no HP proprietary code but does contain both AT&T and Sun code, the latter being NFS. GCC and GAS are used to build all kernel and user code. We do distributions, but the latest (called HPBSD 1.7) is out-of-date with respect to what we run internally. Mt Xinu also has a distribution of their More/BSD product that is based on this work but with significant added features (e.g. NFS 4.0, diskless support). 2. 4.4 BSD. This is work in progress and is a joint effort of ourselves and CSRG at Berkeley. This will be, by definition, "pure BSD" unencumbered by any commercial entity other than possibly AT&T. 300 series support did go out on the 4.3-Reno tape but only in source form, making it rather difficult to bootstrap if you don't already have Utah or Mt Xinu BSD running. The Reno tape does not include some late changes necessary to run on 400 series machines though we can provide them. HP 300s have been the development platform (currently still the only platform) for the "new VM" (mmap and friends) that will appear in 4.4bsd (note: it is not in 4.3-Reno). 4.4+NEWVM is running on one machine at Utah (mine) and a couple at Berkeley. 3. Mach 2.5. Funded by the OSF, this has turned out to be mostly an experiment as the focus of our work has shifted to Mach 3.0. It is a spin off from the 4.3 and NEWVM (which is Mach based) work with some influence by an earlier 2.0 port done internally at HP Labs. This was primarily a kernel port, the Mach kernel runs in our normal BSD user environment (says a lot for the Mach BSD emulation). We have it running on a couple of machines here at Utah. If there is sufficient interest, we may put together a "wizard" (i.e. very rough) distribution. 4. Mach 3.0. This hasn't started yet, but probably will soon. (funded by the OSF?) Should be straight forward given our long involvement with the 300 series and our recent 3.0 work on the 800 (described later). This should result in an unencumbered pure-kernel that might be useful to various people (among them, the FSF which has HPs and could use them to develop the GNU OS). Now for the 800 PA-RISC series machines. This is where we have focused our attention lately. In addition to OS work described here, we have also done a lot of work on GCC, GAS and GDB for the PA-RISC. 1. 4.3 BSD. Has been ported to the 835 (should run on the 834 as well). It is robust, however it's far less complete than the 300 BSD port. It currently uses modified HP-UX drivers and can not be distributed as such. It supports only the 6-port MUX, LAN and HP-IB (on the CIO bus). Besides writing new, distributable drivers, there is plenty of general clean-up work yet to be done. The kernel is still built with the HP-UX compiler running in compatibility mode though it has been built using GCC/GAS (the resulting kernel runs "for awhile"). The majority of the user code is built using GCC/GAS. User-level utility sources are common between the 300 and 800, the kernel trees are still separate. We have 4 835s, including our major 800 development machine, running BSD. As a result of our continuing Mach work, we should be able to replace the device drivers and old BSD VM to complete 835 support suitable for 4.4 BSD. We would like to get this support into the official Berkeley release. We have an 832, but are not anxious to take on another bus architecture (NIO) with its associated drivers, hence no work has been done. 2. Mach 3.0. Our latest, and by far most involved, effort. The current work is with the pure-kernel and UN*X single server. The kernel first ran (well, "idled") at the end of October, we got our first shell prompt about two weeks ago, and we could finally execute interesting binaries (BSD not HP-UX) last week (two days before the HP site visit, what timing! :-) Lots and lots remains to be done. We plan to use no HP-UX code, at least in the kernel/server(s)/emulator. We have already redone the VM code (pmap module, TLB miss handling) and MUX driver, are working on a disk driver (current Mach testing is done using a memory disk) but still need LAN and display drivers. We do plan to make a release of this, but I have no idea when this will be. We would also like to see this (as well as the 68k work) get back into the main Mach distribution at CMU. A couple of notes on the 800 Mach work. There was a project at HP to experiment with replacing HP-UX's VM with Mach's as well as adding Mach threads and ports to HP-UX. We have used this work, known as "Tut", as a reference (and for drivers). Also, our work is unrelated to what is being done at the OSF and HP/Apollo for OSF/1. Mike Hibler mike@cs.utah.edu ...!utah-cs!mike