Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!hp-pcd!hpcvlx!harry From: harry@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney) Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp Subject: Re: Questions about HPUX 8.0, X11R4, HP policy Message-ID: <101950170@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com> Date: 14 Dec 90 21:29:09 GMT References: <1990Dec13.100152@dali.gatech.edu> Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Corvallis, OR, USA Lines: 138 Mike Gourlay writes: > I hear that HPUX 8.0 will be shipped out in June or July. > I also hear that X11R4 will be send with it. That is, if you have > `software support.' No, X11R4 is part of HP-UX 8.0 regardless of whether or not one has software support :-) I can't comment on the release date of 8.0. I would suggest getting that information from your local HP representative. > What if you don't have software support? [Gripes about > HP policy left for later.] Will someone please make a tar file of the > distribution tape, and put it somewhere? Or send the tar file to those > of us who have no support from HP? HP-UX 8.0 has not yet been released and in any case I suspect this would be less than legal, as HP-UX is a licensed product from HP. > My local HP rep was confused when I told her I knew of > people with X11R4 on an HP. She seems to think that it hasn't been > released yet. People have it, though! The X11 release 4 distribution from MIT contains code to support both the series 300 and the series 800 machines. It is quite possible for people to compile this code and use it (that is why we contribute this code for the MIT releases). In addition, we have previously announced in this group that there is an unsupported, prerelease version of our product R4 server for the 800s available via anonymous ftp. Not all local HP representatives have the time to keep up on news/notes (apparently some posters don't either). This server is available from: hpcvaaz.cv.hp.com (15.255.72.15) in the file: hpcvaaz:~ftp/pub/unsupported/XServers/X.R4.800.Z There is also a "readme" file which you may wish to look at. The server binary is _compressed_ so be sure to _uncompress_ it before you bother trying to run it. In addition there is a released and supported R4 server available for the series 300 machines. This can be retrieved from: hpcvaaz:~ftp/pub/XServers/X.7.03.300.Z and: hpcvaaz:~ftp/pub/XServers/X.7.03.300.readme If you need some of the libraries not distributed with HP-UX, you can get hpcvaaz:~ftp/pub/MitX11R4/libs.s300.Z hpcvaaz:~ftp/pub/MitX11R4/libs.s800.Z These contain both libXaw and libXmu. Get the README file in that same directory for information on unpacking these archives. > Will the X11R4 binaries running on HPUX 6.5 also run > on a similar machine running 7.0? Specifically, will the X binaries > running on a HPUX 6.5 9000s319C+ run on a HPUX 7.0 9000s370? > Libraries? Server? Client? Yes, with a couple of caveats. HP-UX 7.0 added support for some additional graphics display systems. The HP-UX 6.5 X server will not work on those display systems released after HP-UX 6.5. In addition, most HP-UX 7.0 X installations will cause the user's environment to have the DISPLAY variable set to "local:0.0" or something similar. The HP-UX 6.5 (or earlier) client libraries/binaries will not recognize this as meaning a Unix-domain socket. These binaries will work fine if DISPLAY is set to `hostname`:0. > Why does the X11R3 that comes with HPUX 7.0 not include > some of the X routines that many public programs expect? We do not ship some of the libraries distributed in the MIT X Consortium distribution because of possible support problems. It may appear to be bureaucratic overhead, but for us to release a product we have to show that we've adequately tested it. This involves having a test suite which covers a certain percentage of the paths through the code, and enough test hours (with few enough bugs found) to ensure that the customer will be able to make good use of the product. We simply do not have the "engineering resources" (i.e. enough people) to adequately test all of the various pieces of the public X11 release. > Why does HP consider fixing their software bugs (called an update > of the OS) something for which you have to pay big money for a > support contract? ... > The new versions are bug fixes. That is not right. While new versions do indeed contain bug fixes, they also generally contain significant new functionality. Do you believe it is free for us to continue to improve and enhance our products? You may not care whether I get paid, but I do. My salary comes from customers who purchase our products. If we simply give away all future work, where will my salary come from? > X is in the public domain. No, X is not in the public domain. The code from the MIT X Consortium is copyrighted by a host of people and corporations, including HP. > HP makes so called `inhancements' I don't think we've ever claimed to make any "inhancements":-) We have certainly made enhancements to the X server to allow our Starbase, GKS, and PHIGS libraries to better operate within the X environment, and to take advantage of some of the features of our particular graphics systems. We have also added input extensions to allow the server to deal with multiple and varied input devices, and have donated this input code back to the MIT X Consortium. Please understand that we participate in the MIT X releases precisely because we know that some customers require the latest-greatest version of X more quickly than we can "productize" it. These customers (quite possibly including yourself) are more than welcome to use the code distributed by MIT, but must realize that it will lack some of the above-mentioned enhancements and has not undergone the same level of testing as our product releases. > X should be compilable from the distribution > at MIT, and so capable people should be able to compile X11R4 without > waiting for the newest distribution from HP. Has anyone done that? Many people have done exactly that. If you are having problems, I would suspect that it is with the build process for the MIT X distribution and not with anything specific to HP. The main reason we made the above-mentioned, ftp-able server available is to aid those customers who also need to be able to run Starbase applications within X windows. > Thank you in advance for your reply, While ranting and flaming may make one feel a bit better during moments of frustration, it doesn't help motivate anyone else to provide assistance. Also, saying thank you at the end does little to remove the bitter taste of the preceding flames. Harry Phinney harry@cv.hp.com