Xref: utzoo sci.bio:4150 alt.romance:5763 Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!samsung!umich!umeecs!msi.umn.edu!cs.umn.edu!atc!s5000!gray From: gray@s5000.RSVL.UNISYS.COM (Bill Gray x2128) Newsgroups: sci.bio,alt.romance Subject: Re: Are Humans Naturally Monogamous? Message-ID: <53@s5000.RSVL.UNISYS.COM> Date: 11 Dec 90 21:05:45 GMT References: <6195@crash.cts.com> <6917@uceng.UC.EDU> Reply-To: gray@s5000.UUCP (Bill Gray x2128) Organization: Unisys - Roseville, MN Lines: 108 In article <6917@uceng.UC.EDU> dmocsny@minerva.che.uc.edu (Daniel Mocsny) writes: >In article <6195@crash.cts.com> rcf@pnet01.cts.com (Bob Forsythe) writes: >> Well, for one thing, Dan, I've never known a gay who felt it was their >>responsibility to make the rest of the world act the same way they do. And, > >We will never know, but consider the example set by the Christians. >In their early history, they were a violently oppressed minority. >The Romans fed them to the lions for public entertainment. Then, after >Christians became the majority, they established huge, corrupt >bureaucracies, instituted progroms and crusades and inquisitions, >etc. I suspect that anytime one particular group gets too much >power relative to other groups, it will be controlled by bastards, >regardless of its putative charter, lofty aims and claims, etc. > When a religious organization is small and powerless, its members are forced to develop their faith. Since there are usually political, economic, and frequently criminal prices to pay for the affiliation, those who retain that affiliation usually take it seriously. Paradoxically, this often leads to great belssings for the adherents; though skeptics scoff, faith is powerful. Anyway, time passes, non-believers are attracted to the faith by virtue of its rewards, and the belief grows in numbers. Unfortunately, it usually also grows in economic and political clout. Humility shrivels and is replaced by pride and even arrogance. People rely increasingly on political power instead of spiritual power. What remains is only the shell of what once was a life-giving faith. Note that while I said "religious organization," in fact most political groups share the same pathology. In Sunday's Red Star (the local leftist daily :-( ), an econazi was telling one and all how Christmas tree farmers must "be put out of business" by regulation or law for environmental reasons. >>BTW, if you could offer me an example of how fundamentalists are "interfered ^^^^^^^^^^ >>with", I'd like to hear it. ^^^^ "Your orders are therefore to hasten your operations with all possible speed. The Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the state. . ." Missouri Governor Boggs to General Clark of the Missouri state militia in the fall of 1838 (sorry, I don't have the exact date handy) The next day, the heroic militia killed 17 Mormons, nobly making sure that the women among the murdered at least had the pleasure of sexual intercourse before their deaths. (No doubt the women were beside themselves with joy and gratitude.) To be sure, the order was later rescinded--about 140 years later. Nor was extermination the only "interference" Mormons faced. Both Utah and Idaho were forced to add bans on polygamy to their state constitutions before they were admitted to the Union. After admission, the duly elected representative from Utah was refused a seat in the House of Representatives because he had practiced polygamy. But the writer wanted current grievances, no doubt, and probably wants to exclude Mormons from the discussion anyway. So how about: 1.) Forced blood transfusions on the children of Seventh Day Adventists 2.) Forced medical treatment on the children of Christian Scientists. Locally (Minneapolis, MN), the Hennepin County attorney is trying to get manslaughter charges reinstated against the mother and step-father of a boy who died of (I think) diabetic coma. The charges were dismissed once by a judge who can actually read the 1st Amendment, but the prosecutor (who evidently cannot) is still trying to send the grieving parent and step-parent to jail. This same attorney investigated two cases of euthanasia where the physicians who administered the fatal medications are known, and decided not to prosecute. 3.) Christians of many persuasions are daily forced to pay taxes to support any number of abhorrent and repugnant practices and programs. A trivial but visible example: Christians (and Jews, and Muslims, and many others) paid to have Robert Mapelthorpe's "work" produced and propagated. Less trivial examples include support for numerous thugs and dictators whose only charm was that they were anti- communist--which you could fairly say of Hitler, too. 4.) Amish people finally won a MN state supreme court victory that exempts them from having to display a slow-moving vehicle symbol on their buggies. They object on religious grounds, and several fined and jailed. It is settled in MN (for now), but I do not know about other states. It is Politically Correct (i.e., wrong) to claim that the children are too young to make informed choices and that Big Brother has an obligation to protect them until they are old enough to choose to be as stupid as their parents. This conveniently ignores reality: First, there is a price paid for liberty. That price is error. The price some children pay for what I consider to be a misinterpretation of Scripture is sad. The price children pay in Belfast and Beirut is sadder. Second, it is nearly always true that parents care for their children more than anyone else. Parents may make errors. So, too, can social workers. Third, doctors screw up, too. Being treated medically != guaranteed health. BTW: humans are not naturally monogamous. -- : gray@rsvl.unisys.com : "There are four kinds of : : : homicide: felonious, excusable, : : Unisys has enough problems without being : justifiable, and praiseworthy." : : blamed for my personal opinions. : --Ambrose Bierce :