Xref: utzoo sci.skeptic:6939 sci.bio:4159
Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!uoft02.utoledo.edu!desire.wright.edu!sbishop
From: sbishop@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.bio
Subject: Re: Non-human planning and communication
Message-ID: <1990Dec12.140315.2039@desire.wright.edu>
Date: 12 Dec 90 19:03:15 GMT
References: <1505@cluster.cs.su.oz.au><1990Nov26.061137.27991@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>  <MCDANIEL.90Dec11164732@dolphin.adi.com>
Followup-To: sci.skeptic,sci.bio
Organization: University Computing Services, Wright State University
Lines: 63

In article <MCDANIEL.90Dec11164732@dolphin.adi.com>, mcdaniel@adi.com (Tim McDaniel) writes:
> Please note the cross-posting.  Subject line was "Re: we are alien".

> 
> In article <1990Dec4.081503.1959@desire.wright.edu>
> sbishop@desire.wright.edu writes:
> 
>    My comment on this; who says animals can communicate inter-species?
>    Too many people seem to think that there is this mystical
>    communication between all animals.  There is no evidence that this
>    is true.
> 
> There is, however, non-mystical communication between a wide variety
> of animals.  Jane Goodall says that chimps and baboons listen for and
> understand each others' calls.  Baboons, for instance, often scream
> distinctively when they find a rich food source; nearby chimps hear it
> and zero in on it.  They also understand each others' alarm screams.
> As best I recall, "Natural History Magazine" had an article mentioning
> that certain birds understand the calls of other birds.
> 

Actually the comment I was replying to was along the order of - we are
really aliens from another planet because we can't communicate with 
other animals.  The poster seemed to imply that other animals are on a 
mystical wavelength that humans do not share.  

Of course, there is non-mystical communication between man and animals.
My horses have me very well trained.  When they yell a certain way, I
put food out for them to eat.  Same thing with the cat.  

> On chimp-baboon communication and interaction:
> 
> Jane Goodall describes the mating of a chimp male with a baboon female
> (unique, and one of the most incredible things she has ever seen).
> The chimp displayed as a chimp male does: shows an erect penis,
> rustles branches, makes calls.  Baboon males, however, just show an
> erection and approach the female.  The baboon, though, realized what
> was on the chimp's mind, and approached and stood on all fours waiting
> for mating ("assume the position").  Chimp females, however, crouch to
> the ground for mating, with the male sitting behind; a baboon male
> grasps the females's ankles with his feet before mounting.  The chimp
> pushed with his knuckles, trying to get the baboon to crouch; she
> crouched a bit.  He pushed again, and she crouched a bit more.  He
> then grasped her ankles with his feet and mounted her.  Neither of
> them followed their species stereotyped mating behavior, and they
> negotiated their differences.  (There was no wet spot, so that was no
> problem.)
> 
> The interaction between chimps and baboons is strange.  She has
> observed chimps and baboons:
> - ignoring each other peacefully (usual, even when mixing groups)
> - competing for food (fairly common)
> - observing hazards, like snakes (occasional)
> - trying to mate (very rare)
> - infants playing with each other (common)
> And chimps hunting baboon infants (rarely successful).
> 
> Can anyone think of one non-human species which plays with, interacts
> peacefully with, AND hunts another non-human species?
> 

Sure, that's easy.  Dogs and cats.  Dogs and coyotes (which sometimes produce
coydogs) Dogs and wolves.