Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ncar!gatech!mcnc!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: farkas@eng.sun.com (Frank Farkas) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Infant Baptism, and a Few Oddments Message-ID: Date: 11 Dec 90 06:11:50 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Lines: 77 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article , charles@rpi.edu (Charles K. Hurst) writes: >Ok, I'm stripping out tons o'stuff here to get to my point, so you will prob- >ably want to go back and read the previous posts if you want to know what's >going on here( Oops! If you've been following this line, then you won't need >to! :). > >In article farkas@eng.sun.com (Frank Farkas) writes: >>In article , wagner@karazm.math.uh.edu (David Wagner) writes: >>>In article farkas@eng.sun.com (Frank Farkas) writes: >Ok, I could be way off base on these, but the basic point I wanted to make >was that you totally appear to ignore the 'in paradise' bit in reaching the >conclusions you made, Frank. > I have no problem at all with the fact that the thief eventually ended up in heaven. My arguement was simply based on what Paul taught about faith: Romans 10:12-15 =============== "For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him." "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?" No one gets saved without faith. All who have faith do because they have heard the gospel and responded positively. Besides, find the meaning of the word "paradise", and you will look for a needle in the haystack. It is not likely that Jesus actually used that word, which is Phoenician in origine. Remember that the gospels were not written in the language what Jesus spoke. It is possible that the writers of the three books, where it is mentioned, used it slightly differently. Jesus clearly said the following: John 3:5 ======== "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto the, Except a man be born of the water and of the spirit, he can't enter into the kingdom of God." Are we saying that the requirement for the entry into the kingdome of God has changed? Who has receied such revelation? >Love in Christ, > >Charles K. Hurst >charles@rpi.edu > >p.s. Hey, looks like I will get to make comments on your other post, Frank! > >[This discussion - both sides - seems to be taking a rather literal >view of how much can happen in a "day" in the afterlife. How does >time really apply there? --clh] I don't know? However, we know that Jesus was resurected the third day. Does this mean that he didn't spent three days without a body because he was in the spirit world? Jesus could have said what he said without the use of the word "today". The fact that he did use the word must have some signaficants to us. If it was not ment today, our time, then it would be meaningless to us. With brotherly love, Frank [My suggestion was that once we go beyond this world, it's not clear to me that things are subject to time in quite the same way. I was suggesting that the thief could be immediately with Christ after his death, and Christ still have had an opportunity to visit those "in prison" as described in I Pet. --clh]