Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!wuarchive!mit-eddie!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: farkas@eng.sun.com (Frank Farkas) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Preaching to the dead? Message-ID: Date: 11 Dec 90 07:37:50 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Lines: 78 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article , wagner@karazm.math.uh.edu (David Wagner) writes: >In article wagner@karazm.math.uh.edu (David Wagner) writes: >Well, here I am, following up to my own post. I had asked my pastor about >this passage yesterday, and he answered me today. He explained it to my >satisfaction, but the answer is somewhat technical, as you might expect. >I'll try to give you my understanding of it, but I'd feel more comfortable >with a written exegesis in front of me. Deleted text. >It says the gospel 'was preached', (aorist passive) 'so that they (those >preached to) might be judged according to men in regard to the body >(sarki), but live (zosi) according to God in regard to the spirit. >My pastor says 'sarki' means a body, but also what you do with your body, >i.e., your works, or the works of the body. Then the meaning would be that >'they might be judged (by men) according to the life they lead among men, >but live, (present active subjunctive) according to God, in regard to the >spirit.' > I believe that this is rationalization, or explaining away Bible passages which doesn't fit the things which we believe in. I Peter 3:18-19 =============== "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:" "By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;" It clearly says that he went to preach to those who were in the spirit world, and I Peter 4:6 tells us why. >I suppose, going back to Peter 4:6, that one might construe Peter as >talking about the body reunited with the soul at the resurrection, but >that would make no sense, because then, for the believer, both body and >soul live 'according to God', and there is no opportunity to witness to >the unbelievers, for they are cast into the lake of fire for eternal >punishment (Matt 24). > Once again, how will be billions who have lived and will live, yet they have not heard the gospel? Paul says we can't believe in something which we have not heard. How are they then going to be saved without faith in the Lord Jeasus Christ? Do you know another way? If not, what does it say about God that he will condemn bilions who, not because of any fault of their own, have not heard the gospel? >I invite further responses. > >David H. Wagner >a confessional Lutheran. >[It's not so clear to me that being judged is an experience reserved >for unbelievers. I Cor 3:11-3:15 seems to suggest a judgement of some >sort even for Christians. --clh] I agree with the comments of the moderator. We will all be judged by our works. How can we receive our reward, if this is not so? Final udgement will take place not in the spirit world, but at the time of resurrection. With brotherly love, Frank [I believe your reference is to Rom 10:14ff. While this passage has been cited a couple of times in this discussion as allowing for the concept that those who haven't heard the Gospel won't be condemned for that, I'm not so sure that's what Paul meant. In Rom 10:18ff, Paul goes on to say, "But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have; for 'Their voice has gone out to all the earth,...'" ... "I have been found by those who did not seek me; I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me" (quoting Is., apparently referring to Gentiles). When combined with Rom 1:18ff, I have the impression that Paul thinks God has managed to make enough known about himself everywhere that all people are responsible for acknowledging him. --clh]