Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!lll-winken!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!wuarchive!rex!ukma!seismo!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: bgsuvax!kutz@cis.ohio-state.edu (Kenneth J. Kutz) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Once Saved, Always Saved? Message-ID: Date: 12 Dec 90 03:42:25 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Bowling Green State University B.G., Oh. Lines: 100 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu At this moment I do not have the time to devote to this topic that I wish I had. I'm sure there are others who believe as I do that once a person has been "born again" to use Jesus' words, he will never be "unborn again" to use an unbiblical term. I believe the Scriptural evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of the the eternal security of the believer. In this article I will simply respond to those passages which are used by Steve Peterson to try and show that our continued salvation is based upon continued human effort (which must raise the question, if our salvation is not acquired by works, why must it be kept by works?) In article , stevep@cadence.com (Steve Peterson) writes: > Many people that I have talked with in the past have mentioned that because > they have "accepted Jesus" they are thus saved and by extension "Always > saved". > I was just wondering how to reconcile this idea with these scriptures ..... > Matt 24:13 "He who endures to the end will be saved" > So a person's final salvation is not determined at the moment that he > begins to put faith in Jesus. Matt 24:13 is talking about a QUALITY associated with a saved person - continuance in the faith. Could this be any clearer than in I John 2:19? !?! "They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." This is in complete agreement with Matt 24:13. Both say he that endures to the end will be saved. John expounds on that and says he that does not endure never was. > Phil 2:12 "As you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but > much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." > This was addressed to "the saints" or "holy ones", at Philippi, as > stated in Phil 1:1. Paul urged them not to be overly confident but to > realize that their final salvation was not yet assured. I believe there is a huge gulf between "work out your own salvation" and "work so your salvation continues" which is what Steve appears to be saying. With salvation comes responsiblity and work, work that should be done with fear and trembling for Christian's have a greater responsibilty that any secular job which might instill fear and trembling into us. > Heb 10:26, 27 "If we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the > truth,ther no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of > judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries." > Thus the Bible does not go along with the idea that no matter what > sins a person may commit after he is "saved" he will not lose his > salvation. It encourages faithfulness. I've written a 12 page paper on Hebrews that addresses what I consider to be a misinterpretation of much of Hebrews. Throughout this book we have many parenthetical warnings to individuals who were WITH believers (saved ones) but were not saved themselves. This of course is true of every church (the wheat and the tares) so for the writer to ignore such a population in the professing church would not be very productive for furthering the kingdom. Look at Hebrews 2:3 for example. Clearly some in this group had not been saved. This same group is addressed throughout the book of Hebrews and chapter 10:26, 27 quoted above is such a case. Notice the people above "received the knowledge of the truth". Does this make them saved? Of course not. > Also, Heb 6:26,27 is very interesting...... You probably meant Heb 6:4-6. Ask yourself if a person has been: "enlightened" (heard the truth) have "tasted of the heavenly gift" (had a taste of Christ by association), have "SHARED in the Holy Spirit" (were present amidst some miraculous movements of the Holy Spirit, NOT INDWELT by the Holy Spirit), have "TASTED the goodness of the word of God" (tasting is testing with no commitment to swallowing as Jeremiah writes) this necessitates genuine salvation. I contend not. These people heard and saw all there was to see. There was no more revelation to give. Because of that, there is nothing left for God to do for them, hence the "impossible" in verse 4. (If this teaches you can lose your salvation, it also teaches you can never get it back). I could write for days on this topic. Time does not permit. Perhaps someone else could help pick up the slack... > Best Regards...... > > Steve Peterson -- Kenneth J. Kutz Internet kutz@andy.bgsu.edu Systems Programmer BITNET KUTZ@ANDY University Computer Services UUCP ...!osu-cis!bgsuvax!kutz Bowling Green State Univ. US Mail 238 Math Science, BG OH 43403