Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!wuarchive!julius.cs.uiuc.edu!apple!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: jchale@cbnewsh.att.com (Jeffrey C Hale) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Once Saved, Always Saved? Message-ID: Date: 13 Dec 90 09:11:18 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories Lines: 110 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article , stevep@cadence.com (Steve Peterson) writes: > In article <2974@unccvax.uncc.edu>, elizabeth s tallant writes: > > |...the Bible teaches that once a person > |has salvation, that salvation can never be taken away. A person who has > |salvation is a Christian, and most Christians love God, therefore, they > |do not believe that there is any chance of them ever going to hell. > > Many people that I have talked with in the past have mentioned that because > they have "accepted Jesus" they are thus saved and by extension "Always > saved". > > I was just wondering how to reconcile this idea with these scriptures ..... > > Matt 24:13 "He who endures to the end will be saved" > > So a person's final salvation is not determined at the moment that he > begins to put faith in Jesus. Let's look at the context of Jesus' words: He is in the midst of a discourse about the end of the age, which begins in 24:4 and ends at 25:46. Start reading the passage at 24:4 and you will see better what Jesus means about "standing firm to the end"!! What great faith those people will have who withstand the persecution of the "last days." I don't think it's appropriate to generalize Jesus' statement to anyone and everyone, considering we're not at the end of the age yet. > > Phil 2:12 "As you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but > much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." > > This was addressed to "the saints" or "holy ones", at Philippi, as > stated in Phil 1:1. Paul urged them not to be overly confident but to > realize that their final salvation was not yet assured. > Again, let's look at context! Verse 14 is an explanation of vv. 12 and 13: "for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to His good purpose." When Paul tells these believers to work out their salvation, he is referring to the results of their salvation, the ramifications of their salvation, namely, God's purposes being realized through them! This is exactly analogous to Eph. 2:8-10, in which Paul explains quite clearly that salvation is ONLY by faith alone, but that believers DO HAVE A PURPOSE: "to do good works that God has prepared." Nowhere does Paul indicate that a believer's SALVATION is in question; however, a believer's subsequent USEFULNESS is always in question, requiring a daily decision to obey God and to follow Him. > Heb 10:26, 27 "If we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the > truth,ther no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of > judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries." > > Thus the Bible does not go along with the idea that no matter what > sins a person may commit after he is "saved" he will not lose his > salvation. It encourages faithfulness. > I'd like to talk to a person who has not "sinned deliberately" after accepting Christ as Lord and Savior. 1 John 1:8 is talking about believers as well as unbelievers!!! Anybody out there claim to be without sin? I think that Steve's further interpretation of these verses would be interesting. > Also, Heb 6:26,27 is very interesting...... > > Best Regards...... > > Steve Peterson > > ---- > stevep@cadence.com or ...!uunet!cadence!stevep How about a few other verses to consider? 1 John 5:13 : John explains that the purpose of his letter was to inspire confidence in the believers that they did, in fact, have eternal life, without any doubt whatsoever. "I write these things to you that believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may KNOW that you have eternal life." John 5:24 : A pretty convincing picture of what happens to a person who believes in Jesus Christ: "I tell you the truth: Whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." Romans 10:9,10: A straight-forward explanation of all that is required to be saved and an iron-clad guarantee of salvation if we follow the "formula" : "That IF you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," AND believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, (then) YOU WILL BE SAVED. Verse 10 goes on to clarify what it means to confess and believe. Hey, these are some pretty clear statements of salvation! God makes it pretty clear to those who aren't trying to force their own views on what salvation should or should not be. After all, He has been gracious enough to leave even a single way for us to be restored to Him! Certainly there will be those who would see guaranteed salvation as license to sin at will. The Bible does not condone this; see Romans 6, e.g. But let's not blur the definite distinction between salvation and the subsequent growth process as a maturing Christian! Jeff Hale attmail!jchale "He saved us, not because of righteous things we have done, but because of His mercy. . ." Titus 3:5