Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: gross@dg-rtp.dg.com (Gene Gross) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Once Saved, Always Saved? Message-ID: Date: 13 Dec 90 09:58:23 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Data General Corporation, Research Triangle Park, NC Lines: 165 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article stevep@cadence.com (Steve Peterson) writes: >In article <2974@unccvax.uncc.edu>, elizabeth s tallant writes: > >|...the Bible teaches that once a person >|has salvation, that salvation can never be taken away. A person who has >|salvation is a Christian, and most Christians love God, therefore, they >|do not believe that there is any chance of them ever going to hell. > >Many people that I have talked with in the past have mentioned that because >they have "accepted Jesus" they are thus saved and by extension "Always >saved". > >I was just wondering how to reconcile this idea with these scriptures ..... I'll get to the Scriptures you quote in a moment. But first, let's look at an interesting passage. It is Jude 1. It reads as follows in the KJV (emphasis is mine) "...to them that are sanctified by God, the Father, and *preserved* in Jesus Christ, and called." Assurance is the Christian's full conviction that, through the work of Christ alone, received by faith, he is in possession of a salvation in which he will be eternally kept. This assurance rests only upon the Scripture promises to him who believes. >Matt 24:13 "He who endures to the end will be saved" > > So a person's final salvation is not determined at the moment that he > begins to put faith in Jesus. Actually, Steve, the reference is not to the salvation of the soul of the believer who endures persecution, but to his deliverance by the Lord's return. >Phil 2:12 "As you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but >much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." > > This was addressed to "the saints" or "holy ones", at Philippi, as > stated in Phil 1:1. Paul urged them not to be overly confident but to > realize that their final salvation was not yet assured. Please see my last posting on salvation. >Heb 10:26, 27 "If we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the >truth,ther no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of >judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries." > > Thus the Bible does not go along with the idea that no matter what > sins a person may commit after he is "saved" he will not lose his > salvation. It encourages faithfulness. Actually, the context is that the Jewish sacrifices have lost their efficacy. The writer is making the point that it is Christ or judgement. >Also, Heb 6:26,27 is very interesting...... This is interesting since chapter 6 only has 20 verses. ;-) You are probably referring to vss 6 and 7. These verses Heb. 6:4-8 have long been a battleground, theologically. They have been understood in various ways. The major interpretations are: 1. The warning is directed to some of the Jewish people who professed to be believers in Christ but stopped short of true faith in Him after advancing to the threshold of salvation. 2. The admonition presents a hypothetical case: *if* one could "fall away" (v. 6), it would be necessary for Christ to be crucified a second time. Obviously this will not occur (Heb. 10:12, 14); thus, to fall away is impossible. 3. The warning is directed toward believers who have fallen into sin to such an extent that they crucified to themselves the Son of God afresh (vs. 6) and are therefore disapproved and will lose their reward. 4. The warning is to those who are believers in the Lord Jesus Christ and are in danger of falling away, through unbelief or sin, and losing their salvation. The clause rendered "and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit" (vs. 4) might be paraphrased somewhat like this: "and were willingly being led toward the Holy Spirit." The warning is issued to those who have been instructed and even moved by the Holy Spirit but have never committed themselves to Christ. The entire passage turns on the word "better" in vs. 9. If all that is written in vv 1-5 were equivalent to salvation, there could be nothing better. The experiences outlined may precede and even accompany salvation, but they do not always result in salvation. Scripture abundantly affirms the Christian's eternal security; therefore, this passage must not be interpreted as teaching that believers in Christ can lose their salvation (see John 3:15, 16, 36; 10:27-30; Rom. 8:35, 37-39; Eph. 1:12-14; 4:30; Phil. 1:6; Heb. 10:12-14; 1 Pet. 1:3-5). Lastly, I would point you to Romans 8:14-17. Here the apostle makes it clear what our relationship with God is. He starts off by noting that those who are lead by the Holy Spirit are the sons of God. Next, he points us to the fact that we've received the Spirit of adoption. This fact establishes that we have a unique position. In regeneration a Christian receives the nature of a child of God; in adoption he receives the position of a son of God. The Greek is huiothesia, meaning placing as a son. Adoption refers to that work of God's grace by which He receives us as His very own children through Christ and in union with Him. The practice of legal adoption was widesporead in the ancient world. There are examples of it in the OT (Ex. 2:10; 1 Kings 11:20; Esther 2:7) and the idea is present in the description of Israel as God's son (Ex. 4:22; Hosea 11:1). In the first century under Roman law an adult wanting an heir could adopt a male, commonly of adolescent or maturer years, a custom readily transferrable to the Christian's new relationship to God. Paul makes particular use of it (Rom. 8:14-17; Gal. 4:1-7; Eph. 1:5; cf 1 John 3:1f). When we recall what we were in our sins, the thought of adoption speaks most powerfully of the magnitude of God's mercy to us. That we should be pardoned all our sin is wonder enough; but that the pardoned rebels should become God's very sons and daughters, installed within the intimacy of His own family circle, is surely wonder beyond wonder. Adoption implies that the Christian life is firstly life with God as Father (Rom. 8:15; Gal. 4:6). Both these verses speak of our using the word ABBA in address to God. This is the very word which Jesus had made His own in His prayers and which means 'my own dear Father,' or even simply 'Daddy.' Now, notice what the apostle says in verse 17 of Romans 8. He writes that we are, because of this adoption, heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ Jesus. A further aspect of the work of the Spirit of God concerns the spiritual conviction of God's people, their assurance of faith; "this is how we know that he lives in us: we know it by the Spirit he gave us" (1 John 3:24). In similar vein, Paul refers to the Holy Spirit as a "seal" (2 Cor. 1:22; Eph. 1:13; 4:30), a word in the first-century world for something which guaranteed security, such as a locking device (Matt. 27:66; Rev. 20:3). It had the allied meaning of a mark of ownership. Something of this is expressed in the Spirit's coming on Jesus at His baptism, when the Father affirmed Jesus as His own Son. It is applied to Christian experience in verses concerning the Spirit's witness with the believer (Romans 8:16; Gal. 4:6; 1 John 3:24; 4:13; 5:10). So we have assurance of our security and salvation. Subjectively, this experience of assurance consists in an inward peace of conscience concerning our standing with God, the firm persuasion that Christ's merits atone for our sins, completely, lacking nothing, and that we have been brought into light, freedom, and sonship in Christ. This subjective persuasion has an objective point of reference, the 'inward witness of the Spirit,' which is a persuasion concerning the truth and divinity of the written Scriptures centered in the Gospel of Christ. I submit, Steve, that we can know with divine assurance that we have our salvation. Further, I affirm that once we have our salvation, based upon God's sovereign work, nothing can separate us from this gift of the living God, nothing! Our failures may result in diminishing our rewards, but not our salvation. Salvation is the sovereign work of the Sovereign God of the Universe toward humanity. For His glory, Gene