Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!samsung!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!lll-winken!sun-barr!newstop!sundc!seismo!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: sandrock@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (Mark T. Sandrock) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Reincarnation Message-ID: Date: 14 Dec 90 09:22:18 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Lines: 54 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu Mark Sandrock quoting from *Reincarnation in World Religions* writes: >> St. Paul had confirmed the law of karma when he said: "Be not >> deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that >> shall he also reap." (Gal 6:7) Jesus taught similarly: "With what >> measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." (Matt 7:2) Our moderator responds: >[In order to claim that Paul supports "karma", you have to use it in a >very general sense, to mean that a person's fate follows from his >decisions. Most people understand the term to refer to inheriting >results from a previous life, which Paul certainly does not teach. >Even the general claim that you get what you deserve would have to be >heavily qualified by his ideas on grace. Sorry, but I do not read these words (Gal 6:7) and (Matt 7:2) at all in a "general sense". They sound quite specific and unconditional to me. Words like "whatsoever" and "shall" indicate an *unfailing* lawfulness. Not to mention the fact that one can look out the window and see that the Law of Sowing and Reaping also takes effect unfailingly in the physical world all about us. I agree that Paul does not specifically teach sowing and reaping *from former lives*, but did he teach against it? Is it perhaps implicit in (Gal 6:7)? Did he teach everything? What about "For we know but in part..." It does then become a repetitious debate, so I will say no more. As for grace, or love, it does not negate justice, but rather helps us to find our way *within* the operation of the lawful justice of Creation. Our path can be made as easy or as hard as we choose to go. The grace is the help we can receive in our time of need. The laws cannot be overthrown in any case as Jesus Himself had indicated. And so acquiring the knowledge of the Laws of Creation should have to be of paramount importance to mankind. And this is exactly the purpose of the Grail Message: to give us the knowledge of the Laws of Creation, so that we can surely find our way therein. (2 Peter 1:5 reminds us of importance of *knowledge* as well.) >By the way, the anathema that you quote appears to be from the first >gathering in 543, not the 5th ecumenical. I happen to have a copy of I should have been more specific. The anathema against Origen that I quoted was *Justinian's First Anathema against Origen* not that of the Second Ecumenical Council. My point was to demonstrate that it was not just a question of pre-existence at stake, but also of reincarnation. >--clh] Best regards, Mark Sandrock -- BITNET: sandrock@uiucscs Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Internet: sandrock@aries.scs.uiuc.edu Chemical Sciences Computing Services Voice: 217-244-0561 505 S. Mathews Ave., Urbana, IL 61801