Path: utzoo!attcan!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!yale!cs.yale.edu!horne-scott
From: horne-scott@cs.yale.edu (Scott Horne)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Re: Against educational fads
Message-ID: <27917@cs.yale.edu>
Date: 21 Dec 90 06:18:06 GMT
References: <HARKCOM.90Dec14075348@potato.pa.Yokogawa.Co.jp> <26567:Dec1403:56:2390@kramden.acf.nyu.edu> <HARKCOM.90Dec15113104@potato.pa.Yokogawa.Co.jp>
Sender: news@cs.yale.edu
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Lines: 112
Nntp-Posting-Host: jaguar.zoo.cs.yale.edu
Originator: horne@jaguar.CS.Yale.Edu

In article <HARKCOM.90Dec15113104@potato.pa.Yokogawa.Co.jp> harkcom@potato.pa.Yokogawa.Co.jp (Alton Harkcom) writes:
>In article <26567:Dec1403:56:2390@kramden.acf.nyu.edu>
>   brnstnd@kramden.acf.nyu.edu (Dan Bernstein) writes:
<
<   But lets look at things realistically. How many scientists, businessmen
<or even educators actually produce any writings that serve anyone outside
<of these professions. The minority that do are spread very thin throughout
<history.

Yes, but so what?  How many could last long in their professions if they
couldn't serve the needs of others in their professions?  A poorly written
paper won't be read or published; a poorly written business letter won't
push widgets.

< =}I agree with everything except the ``yet'' clause. Do you seriously
< =}believe that T. C. Mits cares one whit about typing?
<
<   Yes I do. I know more people who have to deal with keyboards and
<keypads than with a pencil.

I use both instruments.  So what?  I can use a ballpoint, a computer, a
printing press, or a Chinese brush pen; what does it matter?  I write well.
This is what matters.

By the way, even computer programmers need writing skills, even though many
of them are sadly lacking thereof.  Look at my code; even my nasty hacks
aren't so nasty as the drek which comes with cryptic comments and peculiar
structure.

< =}< To those people, writing
< =}< skills (creative, not copying) would be considered less important than
< =}< than typing skills.
< =}
< =}Absolutely not. The largest class of people for whom typing is of the
< =}most importance is secretaries, and there are many more businessmen and
< =}scientists than secretaries.
<
<   Secretaries, huh? Your world view is mighty narrow... There are a myriad
<of people in other professions (C Store managers, fast food restaurant
<managers and the like far outnumber scientists, businessmen, and
<seceretaries, just to name a few) who have to cope with typing almost
<every day in their work, yet have no need for doing any creative writing...

Haven't they?  When the boss asks for a report?  When they have to write
to headquarters?  Do they find themselves tongue-tied when dealing with people?
Can they explain things articulately?

<They may have to do a lot of 'creative thinking' to get the books to
<balance though...

That's different.  Almost everyone does creative thinking.  Don't confuse the
issue.

< =}< (But a quick glance at most documentation shows that writing
< =}< skills weren't 'studied' as hard as programming skills were. Myself
< =}< included  ;-)
< =}
< =}Huh? Are you actually admitting that writing skills are even important
< =}for (gasp) programmers?
<
<   Writing skills are important for anyone who wants to be a contributing
<member of society. Typing skills are important for anyone who wants to
<be recognized as a contributing member of society or who wants to be
<able to survive in the coming 'electronic world'.

When do most people do any typing?  Using a bank machine and dialing a
telephone don't count as "typing".  In "the coming `electronic world'",
those people won't find themselves copying long passages of text into a
computer by keyboard.  For an occasional brief interaction with a computer
(entering a name and social-security number, for instance), hunting and
pecking with two fingers will do for them.

<   "No matter how much prose I recite to this damned machine, it won't
<make me breakfast..."

And no matter how many times you type "Now is the time for all good men to
come to the aid of the Party" to it, it still won't make you breakfast.

< =}< In article <8619:Dec1314:03:4290@kramden.acf.nyu.edu<
< =}<    brnstnd@kramden.acf.nyu.edu (Dan Bernstein) writes:
<
<   Speaking of touch, aren't you being a bit rude in your replies.

Yes, Dan, I think you are.  Please keep the tone reasonable; we're all adults
here.

<   It is my opinion that to survive in the modern world and prepare for
<the future(Action), action[1] and action[2] (writing and typing) are BOTH
<important to succeed.

Fine.  I've never disputed this.  But for most people, Action 2 isn't
important unless Action 1 is.

<I also hope that you understand that typing skills are essential
<in making posts to the net and writing skills seem to be a convenience
<(though they should be considered essential).

I know people who tap out their USENET articles with two fingers.  Does it
matter to you that this article came out of my fingers at about a hundred
words per minute?  If so, I'll write this sentence with only two fingers,
just for your benefit.  :-)  There.  See?  No difference.

Writing skills a convenience on the net?  That's why half the stuff on the
net can hardly be read.

					--Scott

-- 
Scott Horne                               ...!{harvard,cmcl2,decvax}!yale!horne
horne@cs.Yale.edu      SnailMail:  Box 7196 Yale Station, New Haven, CT   06520
203 436-1817                    Residence:  Rm 1817 Silliman College, Yale Univ
Uneasy lies the head that wears the _gao1 mao4zi_.