Path: utzoo!mnetor!tmsoft!torsqnt!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!samsung!uunet!zephyr.ens.tek.com!tektronix!sequent!crg5!lcline From: lcline@sequent.com (Larry Cline) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga Subject: Re: Time For A New Computer? Message-ID: Date: 18 Dec 90 19:48:26 GMT References: <9012180315.AA23854@cwns1.INS.CWRU.Edu> Sender: root@crg5.UUCP Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Beaverton, Oregon Lines: 115 In-reply-to: ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu's message of 18 Dec 90 03:15:58 GMT In article <9012180315.AA23854@cwns1.INS.CWRU.Edu> ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill) writes: I was sitting around today, thinking about expansion for my 500, when I came upon what seems to be a very good idea. What is Commodore famous for? I mean, what makes Commodore the company we all know and love? It's the fact that they always have offered tomorrow's computer at today's price. Well, as much as I love my 500 (And it's still a more advanced machine than most of what Apple or IBM puts out.), I think it's time for Commodore to reposition theirself as a clear winner in the under-$1000 market range. Note that I'm not talking about the 2000+ series of machines, they're another topic all together. I am saying that I think Commodore needs to introduce one or two new models in the under-$1000 market range. Here's what I came up with: If you want to keep the 500 as a under-$500 Amiga: 1) Commodore should provide the 500 with a new expansion box which you can buy as an addon and plug into the expansion bus on the 500, in much the same style and fashion as the Bodega Bay. Price- $300 to $350. This box can be used to bring your ordinary 500 into the world of the newer features found on newer Amigas (IE: 24bit graphic cards, 68030 CPU cards, RAM, etc.) 2) Add one new model to the Amiga line for a price of around $800. This new machine is mainly a 1500A ( "?" See info about Commodore's new model show in Europe.) look-alike. This machine will have the following features: o 68030 or 68040 CPU running at at least 16Mhz o 1.5 MEG of true 32 BIT RAM o 3 Amiga ZorroIII slots o A CPU Slot o A Video Slot (All slots same as 2000's.) o A new Commodore STANDARD 24BIT Graphic Board (Lowrell U? (SP?) This board will either be a card in one of the ZorroIII slots or built into the motherboard.) o 3.5" 1.5 (or more) MEG Floppy [END OF FEATURE LIST] This machine, incase you haven't seen the 1500 (?), has a detached keyboard and looks somewhat like a 1000. You can also order this machine with SCSI controller and hard drive installed. The machine has room for one more 3.5" drive, so you can either add another floppy, put a hard drive there, or stick the hard drive on your hardcard if you want. Remember that the mother- board is 32 bit, with the custom chips all using 32 bit pathways (or at least as much as the 3000 does). Remember too that we are not competing with the 2000 series machines here. They'll be fitted and priced similarly. If you are ready to drop the 500, in a sense: 1) The above machine will still be the same, price and everything. 2) The 500 with simply be changed, motherboard-wise. The changes to the normal-looking 500 will include: o A 32 Bit Motherboard o 1 or 1.5 MEG RAM (32 bit) o The new 32 bit special Chips o 24bit Graphics built in o A 68030 or 68040 CPU running at at least 16Mhz o The provision of a expansion box which can be bought later on, to bring the 500's ability up to that of the above computer, along with the 2000 and 3000 series machines. Well, I think this would be a killer idea for Commodore to think over. Commodore well sell a lot of machines by providing the first '30 CPU and 24bit graphics machine at a under-$1000 price. Nobody has done this yet. If you think about it, the market of under-$1000 machines has been unchanged since the 68000s were introduced. The 68000 machines are still there, with no new breed of computer hitting the market (yet). Also forgot to mention that people shouldn't worry about 24bit graphics being an incompatible issue in the future. I'm sure Commodore will come up with some type of driver, along with maybe a little hardware, to make the thing emulate the old Amiga graphic modes. No problem there, probably. What does everybody think? Tom -- ............................... | Amiga...The computer for _ | | the creative mind! _ // | |.......................\\//..| It seems like you think that C= is making huge profits off it's 500 sales and can afford to redesign the thing, add more to it and sell it for less. While I can't state it as fact, I am reasonably assured by my experience and knowledge that in order to do what you want would put the cost of the 500 over the 'under-$1000' range. The price of the 500 will probably continue to fall as the initial costs of development and production are regained through existing sales, but there will always be a bottom and it won't be $179.95 B-) Second, why should C= be responsible for producing all these add-ons. That's what 3rd party developers are for. Why should C= make an expansion box like the Bodega Bay when the Bodega Bay is already there. To jump into competition with their supporters in the 3rd party market is cutting their own throat. Another good reason for C= not to produce such things is cost. You have to remember that with large companies you have large overhead. Everything that a company has to sell has to cover its share of the overhead and make a profit. I don't know how many times I've heard somebody say; 'This part only costs $.79. The Company could put it in, charge $.85 and make more money.' Except a large company might end up having to charge a lot more to actually make money. Some company figures I have seen have that small addition charged at $2.50 to make money. The best bet is for medium sized companies which can buy in the volumes to get the price break and have a smaller overhead than the large company. I feel that it might help C= to come out with two new machines, one is a 68030 based 500 (I like to call it the Hi-Five) with 2.0 and all that fun stuff. Basically a low end 3000 that is minimally expandable. (And I'm not even going to suggest a price because it would probably fall in the $2000 range.) The second machine would actually be a low end 2000 designed to fall in the mid range between the 500 and 2000. The usual cost cutting measures such as reduced footprint, no I*M slots or Bridge slots, smaller power supply and such. Might be able to put it at a suggested list between $1000 and $1200. There is a lot more to all this but it would take a couple of years and a few business and economics courses to explain it all. Larry -- Larry Cline lcline@sequent.sequent.com lcline@crg8.sequent.com ".sig! Contractors don't need no stinkin' .sig!!!"