Path: utzoo!mnetor!tmsoft!torsqnt!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!zephyr.ens.tek.com!tektronix!percy!nosun!techbook!tsouth
From: tsouth@techbook.com (Todd South)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Re: High level language "fools"  (was:Re: Stellar 7 re-release)
Summary: Start the teaching presses!
Message-ID: <1990Dec18.064832.21159@techbook.com>
Date: 18 Dec 90 06:48:32 GMT
References: <10621@ucrmath.ucr.edu> <10136@darkstar.ucsc.edu> <10627@ucrmath.ucr.edu>
Organization: TECHbooks of Beaverton Oregon - Public Access Unix
Lines: 62

In article <10627@ucrmath.ucr.edu> rhyde@ucrmath.ucr.edu (randy hyde) writes:
>>> all computer majors have to take at least one class in assembly.
>
>This is the case at most universities today.  Alas, the classes are
>rarely taught by "enlightened" instructors.

So sadly true.  One can't even get correspondence courses in 6502 anymore
for government work (and we do have so systems still using 6502's).

>>> Are you teaching it in 6502..?
>
>Heavens no!  6502 assembly language is not a very marketable skill these
>days.                                             ^^^^^^^^^^
						       |
				    Keyword Alert!     >

>Although I have the academic freedom to teach whatever I like, I
>can guarantee you that it takes a considerable effort to get these students
>interested in assembly language in the first place.

IHMO, this is the result of years and years of braindead Pascal teachers
assaulting the high school kids with the structure god! :)  OTOH, I've
yet to see many high school comp teachers that really want to mold
programmers instead of academians.

>I would love to teach a 65816 assembly language class.  I used to teach 6502
>in many computer stores around So Cal.  Perhaps some of you have even seen
>my book on 6502 assembly language.  Alas, I'd probably only get two or three
>students taking such a class.  I doubt I could sell it to the university.
>65816 assembly language is difficult.  The M & X bits are exceeded only by
>segmentation in complexity to a beginning student (we don't *EVEN* get into
>segmentation in the assembly language class).  However, anyone who can make
>it through an 816 assembly language course would have to be good.
>
>*** Randy Hyde

Have you ever thought of working on a correspondence medium?  From your
(and others) past works I'm always reminded of the books that lead everyone
up to a point and then leave the person (who wants more) somewhat hanging.
Not so much you, but Gary Little comes to mind very quickly.  You ever
notice how books like "Exploring the Apple //gs" cover some really neat
stuff that the beginning //gs programmer should know, but stops when it
comes to using shadoing effectively, animation data structures, graphic
data structures (which are useful and would really work with a commercially
publishable program), showing good techniques for crossing the 64K segment
boundaries with programs and/or data structures, etc...

Too bad people like the FTA want to keep showing off/bitching about the
Apple //gs' capabilities.  They ought to write down this stuff and sell
it to types like me who don't have the time to trudge through tons of
notes before finding the right way to cross reference 3-dimensional data
structures.

Sorry for mumbling...

Todd South

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