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From: mhw@lock60.UUCP (Mark H. Weber)
Newsgroups: unix-pc.general,comp.sys.att
Subject: Re: Removal of unix-pc groups
Message-ID: <612@lock60.UUCP>
Date: 20 Dec 90 04:31:22 GMT
References: <58455@becker.UUCP> <27601FD3.6C20@tct.uucp> <608@lock60.UUCP> <570@hico2.UUCP>
Reply-To: mhw@lock60.Schuylkill.Canal.Org (Mark H. Weber)
Organization: Lock #60 on the Schuylkill Canal, Mont Clare, PA, USA
Lines: 57

In article <570@hico2.UUCP> kak@hico2.UUCP (Kris A. Kugel) writes:
>
>I think that unix-pc will be a problem when it becomes a "ghost" - 
>sites that don't upgrade their sys file automaticly, or regularly,
>will list the group as still existing, people will post to it,
>and wonder why there's so little followup.

Don't get me wrong, I *am* in favor of moving to a mainstream group.
I just don't think that the transition is going to be all that quick
and clean. The only step which will be fairly automatic is the creation of
the new groups. Removal of groups is not automatic at most sites, adding
aliases is never automatic (we'll get into aliasing after the voting
results are in, as it works differently under Cnews vs Bnews, and 2 
different ways under Bnews). Many sites are on "auto-pilot", with no 
one around to do this type of maintenance. 

>One labor-intensive, (but effective?) step we could do would
>be to change unix-pc groups to be moderated, the moderator
>puts appropriate messages into the new group, and send an email
>message to each poster explaining the change. 
>
I don't think that this is really necessary, and would be a lot of
work for the moderator. I think that the process of rounding up
the stragglers can be done in a distributed fashion by random
volunteers. Here's how I'm planning on handling the transition
on my system (assuming a successful vote):

At the time the new groups get created:
    1) Create the new groups (maybe automatic).
    2) Add the groups to my sys file along side of the unix-pc entries,
       so that I exchange both the new groups and the unix-pc groups
       with my current unix-pc neighbors.
    3) Alias the old unix-pc groups to the new groups.

Later (about 3 months or so, after things settle down):
    4) Unalias the old groups, and see if anyone is still posting 
       only in unix-pc.*. Send gentle email reminders to the posters,
       and offer help getting the new groups created.

Later (about 6 months after I get the last unix-pc only post):
    5) After consulting with my unix-pc neighbors, remove unix-pc 
       from my sys file. If distribution of the new groups via my local
       backbone site is reliable, I may eliminate some of my old
       unix-pc links at this time.

This seems like a reasonable way to make sure that no postings are lost,
and nobody misses the boat to the new groups. Once again, remember that
only step 1 is fairly automatic, steps 2, 3 & 5 will have to be performed
manually, and at a varying pace for each site (anywhere from immediately
to never).

Anyway, don't forget to vote! And have a safe and joyous holiday season.

--
Mark H. Weber ( mhw@Schuylkill.Canal.Org )           "Schuylkill" (skool' kill)
 Mont Clare   ( ...!uunet!cbmvax!cgh!lock60!mhw )      is a Dutch word meaning 
  PA  USA     ( ...!psuvax1!burdvax!gvlv2!lock60!mhw )     "hidden river"