Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mcsun!ukc!mucs!liv-cs!rkl From: rkl@and.cs.liv.ac.uk Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp Subject: Some Q&A's about HP-UX 8.0 and X11R4 Message-ID: <1990Dec17.113709.8929@and.cs.liv.ac.uk> Date: 17 Dec 90 11:37:09 GMT References: <1990Dec13.100152@dali.gatech.edu> Organization: Computer Science, Liverpool University Lines: 98 In article <1990Dec13.100152@dali.gatech.edu>, mikeg@dali.gatech.edu (Mike Gourlay) writes: > Hi HP people, I don't work for HP, but we have a large installation of HP-UX workstations here, so I'm slightly qualified to comment :-) > I hear that HPUX 8.0 will be shipped out in June or July. > I also hear that X11R4 will be send with it. That is, if you have > `software support.' I'm waiting for disk quotaing with 8.0 myself (and will it work across NFS ?). X11R4 is a dead subject - we got our copy FTP'ed directly from a US archive 2 days after it was announced. Even then, MIT supplied a hacked-by-HP .o file for the X11R4 server, which was annoying when most/all of the other target machines could compile from the C sources. We now compile all PD stuff using MIT's X11R4 and we don't even touch HP's 7.0 X11 release. > My local HP rep was confused when I told her I knew of > people with X11R4 on an HP. She seems to think that it hasn't been > released yet. People have it, though! We do. You can order it from MIT on 4 tapes for a nominal fee. > Will the X11R4 binaries running on HPUX 6.5 also run > on a similar machine running 7.0? Yes, here's the experience we've had: Compiled on Works on HP X11R2/6.5 HP X11R2/6.5, HP X11R3/7.0, MIT X11R4/7.0 HP X11R3/7.0 HP X11R2/6.5, HP X11R3/7.0 MIT X11R4/7.0 HP X11R3/7.0 and MIT X11R4/7.0 - *not* under 6.5 Of course, font paths and libraries can cause problems, but there are workarounds. > Specifically, will the X binaries > running on a HPUX 6.5 9000s319C+ run on a HPUX 7.0 9000s370? > Libraries? Server? Client? Should be OK, but I can't guarantee that. > Why does the X11R3 that comes with HPUX 7.0 not include > some of the X routines that many public programs expect? Will X11R4 > lack this hideous problem? Even the MIT release of X11R3 did not come with some of the libraries needed by many PD X11R4 programs. This is a problem: HP lag 6-8 months behind MIT on their releases...and they also tweak the MIT release, which is a bit naughty. > Why does HP consider fixing their software bugs (called an update > of the OS) something for which you have to pay big money for a > support contract? It is unfair. It's disk quotaing that is possibly HP's biggest faux pas. That is a desperately required feature of HP-UX, especially in an academic situation with 100's of undergrads, and I feel that 8.0 should be 'free' to those without a support contract, simply because rival manufacturer's (Sun springs to mind) have had disk quotaing for many years. > X should be compilable from the distribution > at MIT, and so capable people should be able to compile X11R4 without > waiting for the newest distribution from HP. Has anyone done that? Yes, but it was a big problem working out where to put MIT's X11R4. After playing with dreaded cdf's, we've finally settled on a /MIT top level (under which are the bin, include and lib dirs) soft-linked to a central disk mounted via NFS. Customised scripts allow either version to be started up (with separate ~/.x11start and ~/.mitstart startup files). > That, according to her, > is why WE HAVE TO PAY HP TO GIVE US PUBLIC DOMAIN SOFTWARE > AND BUG FIXES TO THEIR WEIRD, BUGGY, INCOMPLETE UNIX > PORT AND SPECIAL VERSION OF X. I object to HP including an highly-modified release of Elm with 7.0 and then removing any trace of the original author's names. We've renamed ours to elm.7.0 (and newmail.7.0) and soft-linked elm and newmail to the latest PD version (elm 2.3 PL9). > For now, I run many of the X apps I need on a Sparc, and just > have the Sparc use my display. EtherNet is wonderful. xhost + is > fantastic. My HPUX is being used as a dumb X terminal!!! I'd like it > to evolve into something more useful. I'd recommend a minimum HP-UX configuration of 16MB RAM, preferably with a colour display and at least a 300MB system disk. Diskless machines or machines with <16MB RAM really do suffer massive peformance degradation when running X. Richard K. Lloyd, *** This is a MicroVAX II running VAX/VMS V5.3-1 *** Computer Science Dept., * JANET : RKL@UK.AC.LIV.CS.AND * Liverpool University, * Internet : RKL%and.cs.liv.ac.uk@cunyvm.cuny.edu * Merseyside, England, **************************************************** Great Britain. Q: "What's the world's fastest home micro ?" L69 3BX A: "The Archimedes A3000. 4 MIPS for under 800 pounds."