Path: utzoo!censor!geac!torsqnt!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wuarchive!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!adobe!heaven!glenn From: glenn@heaven.woodside.ca.us (Glenn Reid) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next Subject: Re: BAD NEWS FOR MAC -> NEXT PEOPLE Message-ID: <372@heaven.woodside.ca.us> Date: 17 Dec 90 04:21:30 GMT References: <9534@ncar.ucar.edu> <1990Dec14.000607.16279@d.cs.okstate.edu> <1990Dec14.015629.16172@agate.berkeley.edu> Reply-To: glenn@heaven.woodside.ca.us (Glenn Reid) Organization: RightBrain Software, Woodside, CA Lines: 59 In article <1990Dec14.015629.16172@agate.berkeley.edu> izumi@fugitive.berkeley.edu (Izumi Ohzawa) writes: >In article <1990Dec14.000607.16279@d.cs.okstate.edu> > minich@d.cs.okstate.edu (Robert Minich) writes: >>Does anyone know of a popular graphics editor >>that was designed around a specific file format? >Adobe Illustrator with the Adobe Illustrator file format. >This format is public (although copyrighted, anyone can obtain it >for free). Illustrator wasn't designed around its own file format. Obviously, the file format grew out of the functionality of the program, as it does with any other application's file format. And the file format certainly didn't exist before the application. The original question was asking about file formats that existed for the purpose of portability; he mentioned CGM, but there are others, like SGML (standardized general markup language or something like that). >This [AI format] is probably the best graphics file format for NeXT, >because files are already in PostScript or EPS, or they can be made into >one by prepending several proc set definitions. And the graphics >can be edited by AI or other programs which understands the format. >The specification has grouping operators which can define editable >objects within a file. It is actually a bad file format for document interchange because the support for text is almost non-existent and what is there has way too much overhead to be practical. Also, you can't represent compound paths (disjoint subpaths, as in a donut shape). The PostScript code is also sort of, well, convoluted, to put it politely, and there are way too many prologue definitions to fake CMYK color and spot color and other things that don't really exist in PostScript (yet). The new, improved Illustrator 3.0 file format (also supported in the NeXT version) should be closer to the mark, and Adobe is actively trying to position it as an editable file format. There is much better text support, and it looks somewhat promising, although there is still no spec for it that I know of. The Illustrator file format is a good general approach (making it both a file format and a valid PostScript program) but it needs work and it needs more support from other apps and/or translators to make it practical to fill the need for a more universal editable representation. Our TouchType product uses a similar approach, where the file format is actually a valid EPS file, but it's not compatible with Illustrator for the simple reason that the Illustrator text format wasn't up to the task, and because we needed some extra semantics for our own purposes. By the way, rumor has it that there is a group of "industry leaders" forming to work on a revisable format, but nobody has invited a representative from RightBrain Software yet :-) /Glenn -- Glenn Reid RightBrain Software glenn@heaven.woodside.ca.us PostScript/NeXT developers ..{adobe,next}!heaven!glenn 415-851-1785