Path: utzoo!attcan!telly!lethe!torsqnt!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnews!cbnews!military From: shafer@skipper.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) Newsgroups: sci.military Subject: Re: YF-22 Launches Missiles First Message-ID: <1990Dec20.020228.29484@cbnews.att.com> Date: 20 Dec 90 02:02:28 GMT References: <1990Dec19.010923.26217@cbnews.att.com> Sender: military@cbnews.att.com (William B. Thacker) Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories Lines: 56 Approved: military@att.att.com From: shafer@skipper.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) Dean Helm asks: >In the December issue of U.S. NEWS they have an article on the >YF-23 "Black Widow " and the YF-22 "Lightning" the next generation >ATF "Advance tactical Fighter". These 2 aircraft are in competition >for a 750 jet contract with the Air Force. >My question is, can these jets be used in combat? What >better way to find out how good these jets are than in actual >combat. Saudi Arabia would be a real good testing ground on how they >would fair if a war broke out. > Any comments? Yes. This is a very bad idea. These aircraft are prototypes. They're the first hack at making the plane right. Despite what the computational aerodynamicists and the flight control engineers and the wind tunnel people and the simulation teams say, everything up to actual flight test is just speculation (sometimes very good speculation, sometimes very bad). To mangle a metaphor, flight test is where the rubber meets the road. After the F-15 had been flown for a while in Cat I testing, a number of stability and control/aerodynamic problems were discovered. The fixes were to clip the wing tips and to put a snag in the rolling tail. No one predicted it; it showed up in flight test. These aircraft are filled with instrumentation. Not the usual payload for wartime. These aircraft are not built for "real" maintainence. They're essentially one-offs, designed to be maintained by a dedicated team. They haven't been ruggedized and simplified so that regular USAF crews can maintain them. We (NASA Dryden) fly a lot of one-off research planes and I can tell you that planes like this are not ready to go to war. Here's a joke that was current when the Navy was trying to make the F-18 flyable: The three great American lines are 1. The check is in the mail. 2. Of course I'll respect you in the morning. 3. We'll fix it in the next release of the flight software. -- Mary Shafer shafer@skipper.dfrf.nasa.gov ames!skipper.dfrf.nasa.gov!shafer NASA Ames Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA Of course I don't speak for NASA "A MiG at your six is better than no MiG at all"--Unknown US fighter pilot