Path: utzoo!attcan!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: moorer@nyssa.cs.orst.edu (Rocky Moore) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Once Save, Always Saved? Message-ID: Date: 19 Dec 90 09:53:57 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Oregon State University, CS Dept. Lines: 84 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article you write: > > Its very simple. > > In john it is written > > '...For God so loved the world that he gave his only son, > so that WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM, shall not perish, > but have eternal life....' > > I believe very strongly that once you are saved you are SAVED! > doesn't Jesus promise to walk the whole way with you? 'Though >I walk through the valley of death...' He'll never dessert you and no >Christian..no matter how much they have slid backwards and forwards >with ever wish to be without Christ. > Do you ever read the Old Testament Or do you you only need the New Testament? If you just remember that most of the writing at that time ASSUMED you had a knowledge of the Old Testament then you would make some scripture a bit clearer. In the Old testament we find several places where the Lord said "Forever" or "If You Just" but they had implied rules to them (mostly Obey & Love the Lord your God). As an example what about King David. The covenant the Lord made with him was broken when he disobeyed the Lord (the Lord still kept part of it even though he was no longer bound to it because David's disobediance). There are many such occurances in the Old Testament, but you say that was then and not for us?? What about: John 5:29 ... they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. Gal 5:18-21 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are: Adultery, fornication uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry ...... they which do these things SHALL NOT inherit the kingdom of God. Gal 6:2 ... fulfil the LAW of Christ. Gal 6:7-8 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for what a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. I do not beleive that the 10:26 is referring that we will be damned for those intentional sins but I feel we will have to be judged for them by Christ for them (quite a few people do not agree with my feelings about this verse so do not feel alone). How about direct verses: Jam 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. 1Jo 2:3-4 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments He that saith, I lnow him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a LIAR, and the TRUTH is not in him. Rev 2:10 ... be thou faithful onto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue the out of my mouth. I have heard people say will those scriptures just pertain to people who have never been saved in the first place. You could bend it that way on some of them but that last on is a little hard to swallow if you try to bend it. A substance must be in the body before it can be vomitted up! This is just a small sample list of many scriputre (in old and new testaments) which can be used to deny the "Once Saved" theology. It only matter how far you open your eyes... Rocky Moore moorer@jacobs.orst.edu