Path: utzoo!attcan!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: A Question Message-ID: Date: 19 Dec 90 09:25:17 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK. Lines: 36 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article vm0t+@andrew.cmu.edu (Vincent Paul Mulhern) writes: > The faith comes first. If it's the other way, then that >criminal should be in hell and all the pharisees should not have been >rebuked for anything. They had the works down pat. No faith in God, >though. And we all know what Jesus had to say about that. The pharisees did NOT have the works down pat. Christ criticises them precisely for this. He criticises them for hypocrisy in forgetting the spirit of the law, and thus rendering it a lifeless ritual. He does NOT criticise the pharisees for lack of faith. They were people with a deep faith in the Jewish interpretation of God but they allowed this faith to become dry and they suffered from complacency and pride in the belief that they were "saved". I read the scripture usually quoted in defence of "justification by faith alone" as a warning not to let the ritual overshadow the deeper meaning (which reduces to the essentials of love of God and love of neighbour). What worries me about this whole justification by faith alone, is that it ends up as justification by one particular work. You are saying that because at one stage you uttered some appropriate words such as "Jesus is Lord", and felt at that time you really meant it, you are saved, that's it, full stop, nothing more to worry about. This is what I was getting at when I criticised you rather sharply in an earlier message. It is a bit like saying that someone is perfectly married because once on a nice sunny day he said "I love you" and meant it. We can all feel good during intense moments of love, but a marriage is not just made of these, but also of the day to day good works we do for our partner. The "I love you" is necessary, but not sufficient. Matthew Huntbach