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From: tp0x+@CS.CMU.EDU (Thomas Price)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Buddhism and the reality of the phenomenal world (was Re: bloody Buddhists!)
Message-ID: <1990Dec20.012159.6355@nas.nasa.gov>
Date: 20 Dec 90 01:21:59 GMT
References: <3083@sequent.cs.qmw.ac.uk> <4293@idunno.Princeton.EDU> <DAVID.90Dec1154916@star2.cm.utexas.edu> <4542@idunno.Princeton.EDU> <1990Dec18.004932.9293@nas.nasa.gov>
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In article <1990Dec18.004932.9293@nas.nasa.gov> david@star2.cm.utexas.edu (David Sigeti) writes:
>
>In article <4542@idunno.Princeton.EDU> 
>elturner@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Edwin L Turner) writes:
>
>   [An extension of our discussion of the relationship between
>   Buddhism and violence.] 
>
>The exchange began when Ed wrote:
>
>   >> 1) Buddhism does not consider violence (or anything else) wrong
>   >>    or bad in principle ("mindless killing" takes on a new
>   >>    meaning within a zen vocabulary).
>
>I replied:
>
>   >This is simply not true.  Buddhism considers anything that
>   >increases the suffering of sentient beings evil and has always
>   >opposed violence as a primary source of suffering, both for the
>   >victims and the perpetrators (assuming the action of the law of
>   >karma).
>
>David Sigeti    david@star2.cm.utexas.edu    cmhl265@hermes.chpc.utexas.edu

I have a question which I would like someone to answer for me. I am a Christian
who admires Zen. I believe that a large part of the history of Zen in Japan
is its reception by the Samurai class? How does one explain the influence
of Zen on the samurai, if suffering is evil? How can one be a Buddhist
and a warrior?

I suspect that one may make a parallel with "Christian Knights and Crusaders".
I would respond that Knights and Crusaders were deluded blasphemers and not
worthy of the name of Christian, and you may say something similar. But what 
of the element of military discipline in some practice of Zen, i.e. "Zen and 
the art of Archery"?

Please give me a historical understanding of the relationship between 
Zen and the warrior class in historical Japan, rather than telling me
what is "truly Buddhism" (although I would appreciate such subjective
comments at the end of any article).

Thank you,

Tom Price
tp0x@cs.cmu.edu

Disclaimer: 
(You've got to be careful what I mean vs. what I say. -- Bill McCracken)