Path: utzoo!attcan!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!samsung!crackers!m2c!wpi.WPI.EDU!hikita.wpi.edu!shari
From: nnk@cs.wayne.edu (Nasir Naseem Khawaja)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: A HADITH ABOUT WAR IN THE MIDDLE EAST ?? (or my misunderstanding)
Message-ID: <1990Dec17.210538.1475@wpi.WPI.EDU>
Date: 17 Dec 90 21:05:38 GMT
References: <1990Dec12.022307.20468@nntp-server.caltech.edu> <1990Dec13.142110.4048@wpi.WPI.EDU> <1990Dec14.011959.9564@wpi.WPI.EDU>
Sender: news@wpi.WPI.EDU (News)
Organization: Wayne State University, Detroit
Lines: 93
Approved: shari@wpi.wpi.edu
Originator: shari@hikita.wpi.edu
Nntp-Posting-Host: hikita.wpi.edu


In article <1990Dec14.011959.9564@wpi.WPI.EDU>, goer@midway.uchicago.edu (Richard L. Goerwitz) writes:

>How about:  Some day men will build machines called automobiles that
>will transport people the way donkeys and camels do now.  These ma-
>chines will require periodic filling with an oil derived from the
>earth.  This oil will become so precious that men will enter into wars
>over it.

        Now, the people might ask what a machine is. An average 
        Arabian in those times had no clue as to what the concept
        of a machine meant (in some underdeveloped countries, some
        people even today have no idea as to what a machine actually
        is :-). 
        
        It is common practice that when you teach something to a 
        person who does not know even the basics of that thought
        (a child, for example), you tend to make things relative
        to that person's surroundings (birds and the bees, as 
        compared to graphic sex narrations :-).
        
        That is what exactly the prophets did. What, do you suppose,
        are the concepts of Heaven and Hell? They are simply some
        prophecies made by our books and our Prophets (PBUThem).
        The version of Hell to us is a burning pit of fire with
        all sorts of pain inflicting beings present. The concept of a 
        Heaven (or Paradise) to us is a place where all our wishes 
        would come true. Do you suppose that really will be the case?
        
        In actuality, our standards of pain and joy, reward and punish-
        ment at the time of judgement would be quite, quite different
        from those that we have here. The thoughts of Heaven and Hell
        were presented to us in such a way only because they were in 
        relation to our surroundings here in the world. We can relate 
        extreme pain to the burning sensation felt if touched by fire.
        Our eternel wish is that all our wishes would come true so that 
        we can cruise in that new Porsche we saw in the commercial last
        night ;^).
        
        So you see, our needs and wants will be quite diferent in the
        hereafter and hence Allah provided us with concepts that we
        could be comfortable in believing.
        
        
>>      As an answer to a question by one of his disciples (ashaabah) about 
>>      the lifestyle of the people of the further age, the prophet
>>      (PBUH) replied [paraphrased], that there would come a time when
>>      people would ride on horses made of iron and eat with weapons.

>I'd very much like to see this quoted, with a reference.


        So would I. I simply cannot remember the name of the book I 
        read this from. Anybody out there who does knows anything about
        it?.. please post.
        
        
>There are two ways to make the revealed Word valid for all times.  One
>way is to say that it refers, in a cryptic way, to all social, econonomic,
>and political periods.  Another way is to say that, although it refers
>outwardly to events and beliefs of a specific time-period, the lessons it
>teaches about morality, ethics, and generally about one's way of life,
>can be applied to any era.

>It seems to me that you opt for the first and second viewpoints, both at
>the same time.  I merely ask why not only the second?  If you opt for the
>second, it gets you out of some tight corners.
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
         
         And that's exactly what we (Muslims) don't (and should'nt)
         do. When we are clearly instructed by our holy book that
         those writings ARE for all times, we should simply say:
         
                          "Aaman to bi'llahe"
                          [  I    believe   ]
          
          I know this sounds quite ridged on my part, but this sole
          phrase (I believe) has kept us from changing our book as
          the Jews and the Christians have, just to "get out of some
          tight corners".
          
          
>-Richard (goer@sophist.uchicago.edu)

           Nasir.       
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
:: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ./   \.    Nasir Khawaja                  |              ::
:: >>>>>>>>>>>>> ./  |  \.     Wayne State University      -.-           | ::
:: >>>>>>>>>>>> ./       \.    Detroit, MI 48202            |           -.-::
:: >>>>>>>>>>> ./    |    \.    (313) 577-8513                 ___  |    | ::
:: >>>>>>>>>> ./           \.                               __/__/  |  @   ::
:: >>>>>>>>> .///////|\\\\\\\.  nnk@cs.wayne.edu       ____/         \___/ ::
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::