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From: thom@dewey.soe.berkeley.edu (Thom Gillespie)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Re: Against educational fads
Message-ID: <40138@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU>
Date: 23 Dec 90 08:01:31 GMT
References: <39897@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> <27743@cs.yale.edu> <40001@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> <27936@cs.yale.edu>
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Reply-To: thom@dewey.soe.berkeley.edu.UUCP (Thom Gillespie)
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In article <27936@cs.yale.edu> horne-scott@cs.yale.edu (Scott Horne) writes:

>... trimmed stuff you've read at least 3 times before

>I doubt it.  Some will like computers, some will be frustrated by them.
>
>Anyway, much of the "convivial" nature of word processors comes from their
>toy-like quality.

When I use the term "convivial" I'm using it in the same fashion Ivan Illich
used it in the past. A convivial tool is one which can be easily learned and
does not need to be 'taught' This same "conviviality" is expressed by Alan Kay
when he discusses his fantasy amplification device and which most of the Media
Lab projects exhibit.

I've taught a lot of kids to use word processors and I have never found a kid
to be 'frustrated' by the "convivial" nature of word processors.

How many kids have you taught to use computers for writing, graphics, and
programming? Yes Scott I'm sorry to say but I've even taught 5 year old kids to
use terrible editors to write recursive programs. Correction, I helped them
'learn' to use terrible editors -- no frustration!

The best tool to teach writing is the word processor because it is, as Illich
defined it, a convivial tool. 

"toy-like quality", does that mean that it is less than tool-like?

My guess is that the more 'toy-like' a tool is the quicker the learning.

--Thom Gillespie