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From: kirchner@umn-cs.cs.umn.edu (Roger B. Kirchner)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.lang.lisp
Subject: Needed: Lisp on NeXT for January AI course
Message-ID: <1990Dec22.225150.20135@cs.umn.edu>
Date: 22 Dec 90 22:51:50 GMT
Sender: kirchner@cs.umn.edu (Roger B. Kirchner)
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis - CSCI Dept.
Lines: 72

I am desperate to find a Common Lisp for my AI course at Carleton
College starting in January.  I had hoped that Franz would have an
upgrade for current NeXT customers by now.  But I wasn't too worried.
I had expected that a saved image of Allegro CL would be sufficient.
But it turns out to be more broken than I thought -- it won't load
files.

Has anyone compiled kcl or akcl?  I just obtained the latest version
of akcl from rascal.ics.utexas.edu, thinking that by now there might be
code for installing it on a NeXT.  No such luck.  The following machines
are supported, and NeXT is not among them.

* hp300:  Hp 350, 370 under HPUX.
* mp386: intel 386 under System V (eg microport)
* ps2_aix: ibm ps2 under aix
* rios: Ibm risc 6000 under aix3.
* rt_aix: ibm rt under aix release 2.
* sgi4d: 4d version of silicon graphics
* sgi: silicon graphics 3d versions
* sun3-os4: sun3 under os 4.03, 4.1
* sun3:  Sun 3 (motorola 68K)  Sun OS  3.
* sun4:  Sun 4,(sparc) sparctations,  sun os 4.03 or 4.1
* symmetry: sequent symmetry (386 chips) DYNIX-3.0.12+
* u370: IBM 370 (3090's) under AIX
* vax: Vax under 4.3 bsd., also ultrix

Would anyone like to take up the intellectual challenge of adapting
akcl for the NeXT?  It can't be too hard if users of all the above
listed machines have done it.  I would thank you and my students would
thank you.

It really is disappointing that Franz has decided to unbundle Allegro
CL at least for academic customers, and to price it for the NeXT as if
the NeXT were just another workstation.  One can't blame them for
wanting to make money from NeXT users.  But will they be able to do
it?  Allegro CL is a great product and $1500 is a relative bargain --
commercial customers pay more than that for other machines.

The problem is that a NeXT is not just another workstation.  Can one
imagine a company doing lisp development work on their existing
workstations switching to do it on a NeXT?  And why would a company
initiate lisp development work on a NeXT?  The payoff for commercial
NeXT developers is in using IB.

The only people using lisp on a NeXT are faculty and students using it
for fun, for exploring ideas, for programming languages courses, for
ai courses, for exploring music and other NeXT capabilities.  Few of
these users can justify paying (50% of) commercial prices for a lisp.

The availability of Allegro CL on a NeXT has been one of the most
exciting aspects of the NeXT.  NeXt users haven't had to make do with a PD
lisp but have been able to use a premier implementation.  We have used
it with pride.  It has added great value to our NeXTs.

The down side of having Allegro CL is that there hasn't been a need to
port PD lisps such as ackl to the NeXT.  That is a problem for me now.

I wish that Franz would return to their earlier vision for Allegro CL
on the NeXT.  Why did they bundle it with the original NeXT?  I
thought it was to encourage the use of lisp as a major development
among students who would later want to use lisp in commercial settings
and naturally want to use commercial versions of Allegro CL.

I feel good that we will be getting upgrades from Franz for our fifteen
'030 cubes.  But I feel bad that most future NeXT academic customers won't have
Allegro CL at all.

If you have already gotten akcl running on a NeXT or can get it
running, please let me know.  Thanks.

Roger Kirchner
rkirchne@mathcs.carleton.edu