Path: utzoo!attcan!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wuarchive!julius.cs.uiuc.edu!apple!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: bgsuvax!kutz@cis.ohio-state.edu (Kenneth J. Kutz) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: A Question Message-ID: Date: 24 Dec 90 09:09:36 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Bowling Green State University B.G., Oh. Lines: 58 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article , dragon!cms@gatech.edu writes: Cindy Smith writes: > Thus, while our good works do not save us, but > rather our faith, our good works are nonetheless essential to our > salvation, since without them we have demonstrated our lack of faith. Then later in the post writes: > Attaining salvation, > "getting to heaven," is the result but not the goal of doing good works... These two sentences, after careful reading contradict themselves. The first sentence says "good works do not save us" but are natural outpouring of true faith which I agree with. (I do disagree that good works are essential to salvation but rather are a RESULT of salvation). The second sentence says "attaining salvation...is the result...of doing good works". Paul and others clearly say good works do not save us: TI2 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, The confusion in Cindy's post is the result of the following theme that prevails throughout it: > Repentence is a good work. and again we see: > This is why the first thing Jesus taught after his baptism in the > river Jordan was, "Repent [a good work], for the kingdom of God is at How can God save us "not according to our good works" (2 Tim 1:9) and repentance (which is present at salvation) be a good work that we do? If repentance is a "good work" that originates in man, then 2 Tim 1:9 is wrong. The question we have to ask is, does repentance originate in man? Can man take the credit for repentance as a "good work"? ACT 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. ACT 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified Go d, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life. TI2 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; We see from Scripture itself that the truth of 2 Tim 1:9 is preserved. Repentance originates with God and is a gift granted to us. It is not something we drum up in our flesh. REMEMBER: ROM 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. -- Kenneth J. Kutz Internet kutz@andy.bgsu.edu Systems Programmer BITNET KUTZ@ANDY University Computer Services UUCP ...!osu-cis!bgsuvax!kutz Bowling Green State Univ. US Mail 238 Math Science, BG OH 43403