Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!apple!portal!cup.portal.com!johnm From: johnm@cup.portal.com (John - Madison) Newsgroups: comp.arch Subject: Re: Sun != Open Archtecture Message-ID: <37681@cup.portal.com> Date: 7 Jan 91 06:26:06 GMT References: <36911@cup.portal.com> <5089@trantor.harris-atd.com> <1990Dec19.024945.12335@lingua.cltr.uq.OZ.AU> <1990Dec28.224236.5163@erbe.se> <1991Jan5.135651.486@tscs.uucp> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 40 >Sun tried to continue the 680X0 product line with the 3/80 and tried to >enter the 80X86 product line with the 386i. They did their part, it was >us consumers who failed to maintain Sun's multi-architecture support >by not purchasing sufficient quantities of their newer non-SPARC machines >for them to justify making them. The Sun 3/80 was a miserable machine. Among its fault were: - it was slower than the machine it replaced, the 3/60. - although it used the same package as the SPARCstation, it did not use the SBUs. Instead, it used 3/60 daughterboards, and you could only install one board per machine. This was a proprietary standard, and nobody but Sun used it. - it was *very* late. Sun was about the last company to start shipping 68030 products. The 386 shipped large numbers of machines. The real problem was that Sun could not produce a 486 based machine. The problems included: - an OS that had diverged from SunOS for the other platforms, so that integration of newly developed OS features was increasingly difficult. - an inability to actually get UNIX to run on the 486. This was blamed by Sun engineers on bugs in the 486 chip, but this seems unlikely. - an unannounced, but widely leaked, plan to stop porting new OS versions to the 486, because of these reasons. Also, don't forget the 3/360 (or whatever it was numbered), the vme 68030 system. It too was late and enormously expensive. The cpu board was loaded with expensive chips and never did work right. Sun could easily have saved the 68xxx family by producing a better desktop machine and a lower cost, more highly integrated vme machine. They didn't. It is tempting to claim that this was a preplanned strategy to migrate customers to SPARC, but the actual reason is a combination of engineering blunders and management stupidity. If Sun founder Andy Bechtolsheim hadn't spent $200,000 of his own money to develop the SPARCstation, Sun would be in big trouble right now. Sun's "all the wood behind one arrow" slogan is just a recognition that they burned all the other ones.