Xref: utzoo comp.databases:8315 comp.sys.mac.programmer:20280 comp.sys.mac.apps:3257 Path: utzoo!mnetor!tmsoft!torsqnt!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!uniwa!fennel.cc.uwa.oz.au!a_dent From: a_dent@fennel.cc.uwa.oz.au Newsgroups: comp.databases,comp.sys.mac.programmer,comp.sys.mac.apps Subject: Re: Is 4d (Fourth Dimension) on Mac better than ALL? Message-ID: <1991Jan3.220828.2734@fennel.cc.uwa.oz.au> Date: 3 Jan 91 14:08:28 GMT References: <19464@netcom.UUCP> Organization: University of Western Australia Lines: 169 In article <19464@netcom.UUCP>, lpendley@netcom.UUCP (Lou Pendley) writes: We have spent the last year working on a number of projects, starting with 4D using FoxBASE+/Mac extensively. We just received a copy of Omnis 5 and have decided to shift over to that for all the development we have been doing in 4D. My categorisation of these tools is: 1) FoxBASE+/Mac PROS: - dBASE III+ compatability and easy ports from Clipper etc. - the BEST report-writer around - it is as good as the best you can do with programmed reports in 4D and Omnis but is AVAILABLE TO THE USER, in "runtime-only" databases - multiple files thus you can have local files for speed and shared files on a server. This lets you build fault-tolerant systems, spread the load over multiple disks etc. - fastest in single-user mode, haven't benchmarked the new (2.01) version in multi-user but that's what it claims to improve - uses a variant of the Hypercard XCMD interface (slightly extended, eg: passing pictures) so can easily call Hypercard XCMDS - is VERY rugged, free of all but cosmetic bugs and has been very well supported - has a ROYALTY-FREE runtime binder which lets you produce cheap systems for mass distribution - has a very easy use-interface for hands-on work, as easy as Filemaker and is the BEST way to learn dBASE code - it generates the code to match your menu choices etc. - can trap window changes so you can write a true multi-window application CONS - always produces dBASE-like code which requires more work to design an interface (you can't just use the built-in form tool). Our rule of thumb is that it is twice the time of a 4D interface. Mind you, this is sometimes a benefit. - has AWFUL screen redrawing logic for scrolling areas which can give you ugly interfaces - no way to set command-keys on buttons - poor loading of a "set" of records (write a programmed loop) and limited in variable memory (foxPRO/Mac is coming!) - no security - limit of 255 characters on program lines and expressions - no hooks to anything other than dBASE files, although you could easily adapt a lot of the Hypercard externals - portability would require interface rewrites (despite FoxPro looking like a Mac, the internals are very different - wait for foxPro/Mac and FoxPro 2) 2) 4D PROS - absolute wealth of interface tools, including analog dials etc. - some very sexy externals announced (haven't seen them yet) - used to be promoted by Guy Kawasaki - good data types, easy to build an interface if you follow their rather hierarchical view of managing data - graphical approach to designing file structures good up to a point - I find the procedural language easy to use, given a Pascal background - the packaging of scripts behind buttons/fields etc. is good for reducing size of code, and building responsive interfaces. - has a great user-defined search editor CONS - is ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTINGLY BUGGY - went from 2.0 to 2.0.11 before version 2.1 which still has major bugs that can lose data (eg: a set of circumstances whic fail to save changes the 2nd time into a record!) - uses a single application file and single datafile which are both rather fragile - data size grows rapidly - the packaging of scripts etc. becomes a problem due to the lack of a global search - it can be difficult to find code. - complex screens become slow and VERY memory hungry - some of the best features (eg: user-modifiable lists, record sets) either don't work or corrupt data in multi-user mode - the user-level report-writer is a pathetic columnar effort. - it's not portable to anything!!! - enforces key disk copy protection (UNFORGIVEABLE!!!) - security is ok (group-oriented) but you can't change passwords under program control 3) OMNIS 5 PROS - interface is faster than either 4D or FoxBASE+/Mac - has a good reputation as a very strong data-engine, with good transaction handling and variety of database models - externals seem more powerful (eg: you can define your own event filter) - is supposedly directly portable to the Windows version!!!!! - complex reports are easier to create than in 4D - security appears good, multi-level - not only lets you trap window changes but appears to take care of all the context changes automatically! - includes SQL access - has a set of Hypercard externals so you can use its database from HC CONS - no way to generate database structure diagrams (although the 4D ones become unusable for a complex system) - appears to have no form of ad-hoc report-writer - like 4D, has only one data file, although you can open and close it - lacks some of the nicer 4D graphical elements (eg: dials) onscreen - still has a runtime component, the "Integrator" is expensive and we aren't sure if it lets you create true binaries - can't put command-keys on buttons (although you could write your own event filter :-) ) > > your input please. > The bottom-line is: FoxBASE for dBASE compatability, report-writer and writing cheap systems with no fuss over runtimes. (and speed). Also useful as a sort of super-Filemaker Omnis for bigger systems, with more complex interfaces and transaction support 4D possibly makes it in for VERY complex interfaces, otherwise the bin! > thank you. (All just my humble opinions of course!) > > lpendley@netcom.UUCP. Andy Dent A.D. Software phone 09 249 2719 Mac & VAX programmer 94 Bermuda Dve, Ballajura a_dent@fennel.cc.uwa.oz Western Australia 6066 a_dent@fennel.cc.uwa.oz.AU (international)