Path: utzoo!censor!geac!torsqnt!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!mcnc!uvaarpa!vger.nsu.edu!manes
From: manes@vger.nsu.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Subject: Re: Commodore Research and Development.
Message-ID: <422.2782fdf3@vger.nsu.edu>
Date: 3 Jan 91 13:48:35 GMT
References: <1991Jan3.003449.1@ccvax.iastate.edu>
Lines: 189

In article <1991Jan3.003449.1@ccvax.iastate.edu>, taab5@ccvax.iastate.edu writes:
>    I would seriously like someone to tell me why, over the past few years,
> Commodore's research and development has become very, very lax.  To prove
> my point I would like to present six cases in which Commodore hardware R&D
> has fallen well behind the rest of the industry -- in some cases two or
> three generations behind.


DAVE HAYNIE PRESS THE KILL BUTTON NOW!  MB HAS POSTED MORE OPINIONS
BASED ON HIS UNDERSTANDING OF THE WORLD... A WARPED WORLD.

I truly suspect that you are trying to start a flame war of some sort.
However, since you have decided to open the topic.  I will give my
two cents worth.

> 
> 
>    CASE 1: THE CMOS CHIPSET AND THE ATARI LYNX
>    Some of the original Amiga founders were able to scale the Amiga chipset
> down somewhat and produce a CMOS version of it that preserves the 4096 colors

I do not believe that the original Amiga engineers scaled down the chipset
in the Amiga, but rather designed a new set for the Lynx that had *some*
of the features of the Amiga chipset.  I suspect you will not find a 
blitter or several nice things that the Amiga chipset has.

You can scale a chipset rather easily if you remove features.  Would you
like Commodore to do that?

> and 4-voice stereo sound of the Amiga.  Commodore, with a much larger
> budget for R&D, has been unable to do anything with the Amiga chipset except
> make some very minor improvements.  Commodore has been trying for many years

Are you an engineer?  Do you hope to be one day?

How do you know what it takes to _improve_ the chipset?  A budget is not
the only requirement.  Time is the major requirement.

> to produce a CMOS version of the Amiga chipset that finally includes some
> significant improvements, but completion of this chipset is probably still
> many years away.

Trying implies that they failed at some point.  I recall no annoucement
(even under non-disclosure) of a CMOS custom chip set.  

> 
>    CASE 2: COMMODORE'S PC-CLONE R&D:
>    Commodore is perpetually a full generation behind the rest of the world
> in developing PC-xompatible systems.  Commodore did not have any IBM PC
> compatible systems at all until PC/AT-compatible systems were readily
> available.  Commodore also did market their first PC/AT-compatible systems

Not true!  Commodore has been producing PC compatibles for many years.
They simply were not marketed in the United States, and in my opinion
for good reason.

> until 386-based systems were widely available.  Finally, Commodore did
> not get their first 386-based systems on the market until 486-based systems
> were becoming available from a large number of companies.

So?  I don't think that the 486 computer system makes a heck of a lot of
sense at this point in time.  There is not that significant a difference
between the the current 486 machine and a high speed 386.

Further, Commodore has _never_ said that they were the inovators of the
PC marketplace.  Come to think of it, what innovation have you really
seen in the PC market anyway?

> 
>    CASE 3: THE A2410 "U-LOWELL" VIDEO BOARD:
>    It is very plain how much confidence Commodore's management has it
> their engineers.  When the Commodore manglement people finally realized

When Commodore aquired the U-Lowell board it was back in the time when
the priorities were to get the system booting from hard disk and continue
to solve major software/hardware problems with the machines that were
being produced at that time.  Further, the Amiga 3000 shows that the
Commodore engineers are and have been very busy!

> that their flagship computer system had fallen several generations behind
> the rest of the world in video display technology, they did not have their
> engineers develop a new video board for the Amiga.  Instead, they decided
> to purchase one from outside the company.  Even with this, the graphics
> capabilities of the A2410 are no better than those of video boards that
> have been available for MAC and PC-compatible systems for several years,
> and the A2410 isn't even available yet.

Well, it should be available very shortly.  I suppose it does not matter
to you that with the exception of the very high end macintosh systems 
no major microcomputer manufaturer produces a 24 bit graphics display out
of the box as "standard" equipment.  All video enhacements have been
done by third parties and further have very few software packages that
support these "specialized" high-end graphics boards.

In my opinion, I belive the concentration on getting "marketable" machines
out the door is _more_ important than filling a niche that _most_ wont
need nor pay the price for.  

> 
>    CASE 4: COMMODORE'S CD-ROM TECHNOLOGY:
>    Commodore, to this day, does not have any CD-ROM products available for
> any of their systems.  Commodore is developing the consumer-oriented CDTV,
> but the CDTV is not available yet, whereas CD-ROMs have been available
> for MAC and PC-compatible systems (in some cases as standard hardware) for
> several years.

I don't believe this one.  CD-ROMs though they exist from other manufactures
do not come standard from IBM nor Apple.  They are available as "options",
and there is one out right now for the Amiga from Xetec.

Personally they don't make a lot of sense to me since hard disk technology
has improved dramatically in the last couple of years.   I will defer
to the other CD-ROM experts in these opinions however.

> 
>    CASE 5: HIGH-DENSITY FLOPPY DRIVES:
>    High-density 1.44MB 3.5" floppy drives have been available for PC/AT
> and 80386-based systems for several years.  They have even been available
> for MAC systems for mor than two years, and are now standard hardware
> on all MAC systems.  These drives have been available for so long that
> they are already being considered out-of-date, and several companies
> (including IBM and NeXT) are moving beyond these drives to 2.88MB drives.
> 2.88MB drives are readily available for MAC and PC-compatible systems from
> several third-party companies.  Now that 2.88MB drives are becoming
> increasingly common, the Amiga is only now just starting to have 1.44MB
> drives become available for it, and they are not compatible with IBM 1.44MB
> drives and are not even from Commodore.

I guess it doesn't count that a third party has a high density drive
available today for the Amiga.

> 
>    CASE 6: LAPTOP COMPUTER SYSTEMS:
>    Now that monochrome laptop computers are as common as briefcases,
> and many companies are starting to produce color laptop computer systems,
> Commodore has only very recently produced their first monochrome laptop
> computer, and it is a PC-clone.  Commodore has absolutely no laptop Amigas
> of any kind, and the few third-party "portable" Amigas that are available
> are so bulky as to make desktop computer systems look like hand-helds by
> comparison.  In addition to this, all of these "portable" Amigas are
> monochrome -- an insult to the 4096-color Amiga.

Ah, so if Commodore decides that there is no market for a laptop Amiga
at this time this is a sign of "weakness" in the technological advantages
of the Amiga?  Get real.  Currently, in my opinion, the cost of a laptop
Amiga coupled with its lack of market would make this a "big bust" for
Commodore.  I would like to see this development in about two years.

>    If a small company like Epix -- with an R&D budget much smaller than

That's Epyx...

> Commodore's -- can produce what is essentially a handheld Amiga, complete
> with the Amiga's 4096 colors and four-voice stereo sound, then Commodore
> should be able to produce a color Amiga laptop that preserves these
> capabilities of the Amiga and more.  There are color laptop 80386 machines,
> Apple is developing a color laptop Macintosh, and there are even some color
> laptop SPARCstations, but there are absolutely no color laptop Amigas.

You got to read all the words ... Epyx is not in business anymore.  Don't
you keep up?  I guess there R&D budget got them eh?

> 
> 
>    In conclusion, I feel that Commodore has fallen so for behind in their
> R&D that they will probably never catch up.  Commodore has never been
> a company that produces innovative new technologies, and very likely never
> will be.  Commodore is a 'catch-up' company that is forever trying to
> catch up with the rest of the industry, to avoid going out of business
> altogether, and will likely always be this way.
> 
>     AMIGA -- YESTERDAY'S TECHNOLOGY, FOREVER!!!

In conclusion, Commodore is _still_ in business today and is likely to 
be there years from now, where Epyx is not.


> 
> 
>                                    -MB-

 -mark=
     
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 | \/     |   Mark D. Manes                    "Mr. AmigaVision" 
 | /\  \/ |   manes@vger.nsu.edu                                        
 |     /  |   (804) 683-2532    "Make up your own mind! - AMIGA"
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