Xref: utzoo comp.sys.next:11163 comp.periphs.scsi:1620 comp.sys.mac.hardware:7641 Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!samsung!ernie.viewlogic.com!m2c!wpi.WPI.EDU!cwright From: cwright@wpi.WPI.EDU (Charles R Wright) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.periphs.scsi,comp.sys.mac.hardware Subject: Re: Compatibility of Mac SCSI drives with other systems Message-ID: <1991Jan3.225103.14407@wpi.WPI.EDU> Date: 3 Jan 91 22:51:03 GMT Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute Lines: 318 It seems many people out there are interested in this topic (understatement?) so I decided to post the responses I got. Generally, people gave varying answers depending on which drive they tried, and what exactly they wanted to achieve. I hope people find the answers useful; I'm not exactly sure how useful they are as I am not involved in this kind of work at the moment. All standard dislaimers apply! I'm not responsible for your computer blowing up! ;-) Charles Wright cwright@wpi.wpi.edu ====================================================================== From: maltasr@csusac.ecs.csus.edu (Robert Maltas) Message-Id: <9012290143.AA14492@csusac.ecs.csus.edu> To: cwright@wpi Subject: Re: Compatibility of Mac SCSI drives with other systems Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.periphs.scsi,comp.sys.mac.hardware In-Reply-To: <1990Dec28.210746.21876@wpi.WPI.EDU> Organization: California State University, Sacramento Status: OR Depends on what type of MAC SCSI drive you purchase. I bought a PowerDrive 210 meg external SCSI drive; it uses a Quantum ProDrive 210S and was meant to be used for a MAC-----------but I'm using it on my Amiga 2000, with no problem at all. Robert Maltas -- /// \\\/// UUCP : {ucdavis|lll-crg}!csusac!maltasr \XX/ Internet: maltasr@csusac.csus.edu ====================================================================== From: eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU (Eric P. Scott) Message-Id: <9012290149.AA05057@toaster.SFSU.EDU> To: cwright@wpi Subject: Re: Compatibility of Mac SCSI drives with other systems Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.periphs.scsi,comp.sys.mac.hardware In-Reply-To: <1990Dec28.210746.21876@wpi.WPI.EDU> Organization: San Francisco State University Reply-To: eps@cs.SFSU.EDU Status: OR In article <1990Dec28.210746.21876@wpi.WPI.EDU> you write: >Essentially, is a SCSI drive a SCSI drive is a SCSI drive? Does Apple >do any "weird shit" to make their "SCSI" drives incompatible with any >other manufacturer? YES! > Specifically, can a third-party Mac SCSI drive be >connected to a Next machine's SCSI port? For that matter, can one >connect it to a Sun with SCSI port? Sun and NeXT devices should be interchangeable, Mac peripherals often don't work with either. Sometimes a ROM change will fix things, sometimes not. Talk to your vendor. BTW, at least 80% of all "stupid questions" are answered in NextAnswers--the first place you should look! Here's a sample: Q: I have a Maxtor XT-8760S for a Mac. Can I use it with my NeXT? A: No. According to Maxtor, they make different versions of the same model of drive for different computers. The Mac version of the 8760S, for example, has a different PROM to handle Apple's non-standard SCSI implementation. The Mac PROM is incompatible with our computer. Contact Maxtor for more information. QA574 ------- SCSI disk compatibility Release 2.0 Q: What SCSI hard drives are compatible for use with NeXT computers? A: NeXT offers a complete line of hard disks for use with NeXT computer systems. They range in size from 105 MB to 1.2 GB. These drives have been carefully qualified by NeXT and include NeXT's one year warranty. You should contact your authorized NeXT reseller for more information on these drives. The NeXT system software also supports some third party SCSI hard drives not sold by NeXT. For the NeXT system software to support the drive your system must be running software release 2.0, be connected to the drive with the correct cable, and the drive must support the following SCSI commands and revisions: 1) "Inquiry" and "Read Capacity" commands 2) The drive must conform to the ANSI SCSI Rev. 17B or greater 3) 10 (ten) byte read and write command blocks If the drive is unformatted, it will be automatically formatted only in the following situations: --the drive's capacity is less than 6 MBytes, and --the drive uses removable media. In order to work with the file system, the drive's sector size must be 512 or 1024 bytes. Please check with your SCSI drive provider for details on your drive. NeXT does not have additional information on third party drives. See also: QA579 regarding SCSI cables. QA586 -=EPS=- ====================================================================== From: matthews@is-next.umd.edu (Mike Matthews) Message-Id: <9012290020.AA14523@is-next.umd.edu> To: cwright@wpi Subject: Re: Compatibility of Mac SCSI drives with other systems Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.periphs.scsi,comp.sys.mac.hardware In-Reply-To: <1990Dec28.210746.21876@wpi.WPI.EDU> Organization: Comp. Sci. Ctr., Univ. of MD, College Park, MD 20742 Cc: Status: OR In article <1990Dec28.210746.21876@wpi.WPI.EDU> you write: >Please pardon me if this has been covered before. I have a friend (stuff deleted) >cwright@wpi.wpi.edu As long as it's external, and you have the right cable, it will be no problem at all. Internal drives may be kind of funky, though, since Mac *does* do something funny with the SCSI signal. It only seems to matter for internal setups, though (I have no idea why). I bought a "Mac" Fujitsu drive, and it works peachyfine on my NeXTstation. Mike ====================================================================== From: Jim Guyton Message-Id: <9012290817.AA00677@gaucho.rand.org> To: cwright@wpi Subject: Re: Compatibility of Mac SCSI drives with other systems In-Reply-To: <1990Dec28.210746.21876@wpi.WPI.EDU> Organization: The RAND Corporation, Santa Monica, CA Status: OR In article <1990Dec28.210746.21876@wpi.WPI.EDU> you write: > >Essentially, is a SCSI drive a SCSI drive is a SCSI drive? Does Apple (stuff deleted) >connect it to a Sun with SCSI port? > You can (mostly) mix and match (subject to funny cables, the real internal scsi cable is standard, but the external cables are wide and varied). The biggest problem I've found is that the Mac Boot proms aren't quite up to spec. It resets the bus, and then does a read of the boot block. But a lot of disks go into a wierd 'query me' mode after a reset and need to have their status read before a block read will work. I.e. a slight difference in the drive roms makes life anything but boring. I have lots of fun mixing/matching scsi disks between Suns and Macs, haven't ever used a Next machine. -- Jim Guyton guyton@rand.org ====================================================================== From: finger@evax.utarl.edu (Jay Finger) Message-Id: <9012290700.AA14004@evax.utarl.edu> To: cwright@wpi Subject: Re: Compatibility of Mac SCSI drives with other systems Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.periphs.scsi,comp.sys.mac.hardware In-Reply-To: <1990Dec28.210746.21876@wpi.WPI.EDU> Organization: Computer Science Engineering Univ. of Texas at Arlington Cc: Status: OR When Apple first started using SCSI, they botched it up. They've fixed it since then, but many some drive manufacturers still sell normal and mac versions of their SCSI drives. Other drives are compatible both ways, still others only work with normal SCSI and run the risk of not working with Macs (but it's been a while since I've found one like that). I'm going to try to use a Quantum 80Meg drive that used to be on a macintosh (an old mac that had some of the apple screw-ups) with my NextStation (105Meg). I don't know if it will work with the station yet, because I don't have the correct cable. However, 3 days ago I connected it to a NeXTCube that had the old 68030 board (with mac-style connector) and was running NeXTStep 2.0. Everything worked great, I copied over the development stuff that I don't have, so I'm pretty optimistic that once I get the cable I'll be able to use the drive. If your friend is trying to use an 80Meg Quantum let me know, and I'll try to remember to let you know what happens once I get the cable. ---- #include Jay Finger Computer Science and Engineering, University of Texas at Arlington finger@evax.utarl.edu b645zai@utarlg.utarl.edu ====================================================================== From: dce@krusty.smsc.Sony.COM Received: from krusty.smsc.Sony.COM by sonyusa.Sony.COM (4.0/SMI-4.0) id AA09852; Mon, 31 Dec 90 09:40:43 PST Date: Mon, 31 Dec 90 09:40:43 PST Message-Id: <9012311740.AA09852@sonyusa.Sony.COM> To: cwright@wpi Subject: Re: Compatibility of Mac SCSI drives with other systems Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.periphs.scsi,comp.sys.mac.hardware In-Reply-To: <1990Dec28.210746.21876@wpi.WPI.EDU> Organization: Sony Microsystems Corp, San Jose, CA Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1534 Status: OR In article <1990Dec28.210746.21876@wpi.WPI.EDU> you write: >Essentially, is a SCSI drive a SCSI drive is a SCSI drive? Does Apple (stuff deleted) >connect it to a Sun with SCSI port? Apple SCSI isn't a complete implementation, but the problems almost always go in the other direction. That is, a drive not set up specifically for a Mac may not work in a Mac. I recently got a great deal on a pair of CDC hard disks (150MB external drives for $300 each!). It worked fine on my Mac II (I was lucky enough to have some formatting software that knew about the drive), but on a friend's Mac Plus, it wouldn't work as the boot drive (which was what he wanted it for in the first place). He had to do a lot of work getting the termination right by adding resistors, moving jumpers, and so forth, but eventually got it all working. Luckily, his Plus was not one of the tan/beige ones, which had more problems with many standard SCSI drives. So, it is probable that your 3rd-party drive will work fine with the NeXT or Sun, or any Unix machine, as long as you can get the parameters for the drive (which can be the hard part, especially with smaller drives, since most Unix machines are set up for big drives). -- ...David Elliott ...dce@smsc.sony.com | ...!{uunet,mips}!sonyusa!dce ...(408)944-4073 ..."That's *Mr.* Squishy-Lips to you!" ====================================================================== To: cwright@wpi (Charles R Wright) Subject: Re: Compatibility of Mac SCSI drives with other systems From: johankha@tz.wimsey.bc.ca (e_mou) Message-Id: <0NF2u1w163w@tz.wimsey.bc.ca> Date: Mon, 31 Dec 90 01:46:32 PST In-Reply-To: <1990Dec28.210746.21876@wpi.WPI.EDU> Organization: Somewhere in The Twilight Zone, Van, B.C Status: OR cwright@wpi.WPI.EDU (Charles R Wright) writes: > Please pardon me if this has been covered before. I have a friend (stuff deleted) > cwright@wpi.wpi.edu I managed to get an EMAC Metro external hd to hook up to a cube. You need to edit the disktab, but it seems to be working fine. (This was done about 4 weeks ago). ====================================================================== From: mlg@cblph.att.com (Michael L Goodrich) To: cwright@wpi Subject: Re: Compatibility of Mac SCSI drives with other systems Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.periphs.scsi,comp.sys.mac.hardware In-Reply-To: <1990Dec28.210746.21876@wpi.WPI.EDU> Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories Cc: Status: OR In article <1990Dec28.210746.21876@wpi.WPI.EDU> you write: >Please pardon me if this has been covered before. I have a friend (stuff deleted) >cwright@wpi.wpi.edu As far as I know apple doesn't do anything unusual with there implementation of SCSI. I have used various hard drives from a buch of different manufacturers with my Mac Plus and have only had problems with the HP drives. Other than that everything has worked very well. Thanks Mike mlg@cblph.att.com ====================================================================== From: Donald Phillips To: cwright@wpi Subject: Re: Compatibility of Mac SCSI drives with other systems Status: OR >Essentially, is a SCSI drive a SCSI drive is a SCSI drive? Does Apple (stuff deleted) >connect it to a Sun with SCSI port? I haven't tried connecting Mac SCSI devices to other computers, however I have successfully connected a Maxtor Hard Disk and an Exabyte tape drive to a Mac IIci's SCSI port. __ Donald Phillips Research Unlimited Escondido, California