Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wuarchive!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: gross@dg-rtp.dg.com (Gene Gross) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Reincarnation Message-ID: Date: 3 Jan 91 09:33:00 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Data General Corporation, Research Triangle Park, NC Lines: 131 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu All this discussion on reincarnation got me to thinking. If my understanding is correct, people reincarnate until they have progressed to the point where they become enlightened to the fact that they are God. Each reincarnation is intended to bring about payment for past lives where the person has done things "wrong." This in essence is karma. Now I have a few questions and problems with this. First of all, it seems that we have no conscious knowledge of our former lives and what we've done wrong. So here we are to pay for what we've done in a previous life, but we can't even remember what it is that we did wrong. This is rather like punishing a child for something it did two or three years ago. The punishment means nothing and the supposed "wrong doing" remains unconnected with the present punishment. Secondly, there is much talk about seeking help from various "ascended masters." This seems a pretty wise thing to do if reincarnation is true. However, if the goal of reincarnation is Moksha, Nirvikalpa Samadhi, Sat-Chit-Ananda, or in English "eternal liberation" through merging with God (or the Paramatma), then who are these supposed ascended masters!? They are the "old souls" with a history of almost endless reincarnations, and apparently, they are still around and separate from God. Doesn't sound to me like they have escaped karma at all, frankly. So why should anyone trust them? In fact, in reading some of the Seth material, Jane Roberts talks about what happened when Seth II entered her life. This being traumatized her severely. She says that she was beginning to feel violated by this being. This is not unlike some of the testimony given by those who got very deeply involved in TM and other similar mystical practices. One student of TM attended one of the advanced courses at a European institute for TM. During one session, the guides that this person had come to rely upon turned into demons seeking to rend him limb from limb. To make matters worse, these creatures made it plain that all of the spirit guides were in fact demons. The other problem that I have is that reincarnation is part a parcel to much of the Gnostic and Eastern mystical philosophies. As such, the view of God is one that makes God impersonal. It does away with the Christian view of a personal, Creator God that we can approach and know here and now. Further, these beliefs postulate that the mystery of man's ultimate identity is finally revealed as his divinity within. Since all things are made of God (not by God), man in his deepest self is none other than God. But without "enlightenment," he does not know this (see my previous comments on reincarnation) and, in effect, lives as an amnesiac. The purpose of man is to realize that he is God, thus ending the "illusion" of separation. This is supposed to be the death of the Christian God, freeing man. And I'm constrained to point out here, that getting rid of the Christian God does not mean that people believe in nothing, but rather that they believe in anything (with all due respects to G. K. Chesterton for this insight). Further, reincarnation means that there is no death. As parts of God we are immortal, and death is only an illusion as we evolve throughout eternity. However, if we turn back to Genesis 3, we find that this is the old lie spoken by the evil one. He attempted to cast doubt upon the veracity of God Almighty -- 'Did God really say that? Really!?' But not content to merely cast doubt upon what God says as being truthful, the evil one then proceeds to compound the lie by telling Eve that God knows that they won't die, but rather eating the fruit will make them, Adam and Eve, to be as God, knowing good from evil. And today, we persist in striving to be God. So much energy is spent on trying to argue for the view that humans are God -- deep down inside. And further, that each of us does not really die, but we merely pass on to another plane of existence to be reincarnated at some future time to repay the karmic debt of previous lives. And if reincarnation is true, then we choose our future lives. Thus, the poor cripple on the street corner is responsible for choosing that life. And the wealthy millionnaire living high above the rest of us is also responsible for choosing that life. And we can conclude from all of this that poverty is a choice made by those who are poor, so why bother to aid the poor for making a less than good choice!? Let the cripple help himself as best he is able; after all, he made his choice. And each of us must focus on our own move to the final union with the eternal. Helping another reach this goal is sometimes worthy if it helps your own karmic load, but other than that what purpose does it serve? This is supposed to end the negative results of the Christian concept of sin. Sin causes guilt, but knowing that we are responsible for choosing to be born a poor cripple obviates guilt. And for me this is very twisted logic. Sin can be forgiven, and the power of the living God can heal broken bodies, minds, and souls. Karma and reincarnation chains us to an endless wheel who final resting place is as yet unknown to those upon it, but not so for the Christian. Still, there are those who will refuse to see what lies ahead on this broad road so well travelled. Can it really be that reincarnation and all that goes with it will save one soul from perdition? There is a lot of supposed evidence for past lives. What I found interesting when I was studying reincarnation many years ago before coming to Jesus, is that I met a lot of people who claimed to have undergone past lives regression -- and they claimed to be the same person in the past. I can't tell you how interesting it is to meet so many Abraham Lincoln's at one time, but I met three of them in one party I went to. Yet, each of them had "proof" from their past lives regression that they said was solid evidence. And why is it that the vast majority of those undergoing past lives regression seem to have only been the cream of the crop, so to speak. I've heard so very few speak of being paupers or nobodies. But I have heard a lot speak of having been Cleopatra or some other famous or important personage. And even with those few who admit to having been one of the masses at some point or another, they invariably balance this with having been "a very big hot-shot in Atlantis." And as if to further prove their point, those who believe in reincarnation rip out passages from the Scriptures and say, "See, Jesus and the apostles were talking about reincarnation." They seem oblivious to homelitics, exegesis, and the original languages. For example, take the way that atonement is twisted to mean "At-one-ment." Meaning, a pantheistic, monistic, syncretic view. However, that is not the given meaning of atonement. The root word is "atone" coming from ME "atonen" meaning to become reconciled. Thus, atonement means reconciliation, in this case between man and God through the propitiation for sin by Jesus Christ. And to take what Paul says out of context and wrap it in a gnostic or Eastern mystical wrapper does not alter the original meaning in the slightest. If reincarnation is what a person wants to believe in, then nothing I, nor anyone else, can say will stop them. All that can stop that person is an encounter with the true and living God Almighty. As for me and my house, to side with Joshua of old, we will serve the God Creator, and Him only will we serve. Gene Gross