Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: gross@dg-rtp.dg.com (Gene Gross) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Once Saved, Always Saved? Message-ID: Date: 3 Jan 91 09:33:38 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Data General Corporation, Research Triangle Park, NC Lines: 83 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article louns@cs.washington.edu (Michael Lounsbery) writes: [In response to something posted by Ken Kutz concerning our assurance of salvation. I deleted Ken's posting so as to save some space.] > >This is why I have always thought that this "assurance" seems pretty useless >in practice. Suppose Elmo is a habitual sinner of the worst kind, used to >doing all sorts of foul things. Suppose he sincerely repents and professes >faith. You seem to be saying that Elmo is now saved forever, no matter what >he may do ever again. Elmo has sincerely repented, and genuinely believes >the right things, at least for today. According to your theory, Elmo is now >absolutely guaranteed of salvation. > >But what about tomorrow? Suppose there's a great opportunity to make >millions ripping people off, Elmo gives in, and leads the rest of his days >swigging rum in the Virgin Islands, unrepentant for any sin, and cursing his >conversion to Christianity. In addition, he does even fouler things than >before. First of all, Michael, you set up a real paradox that maybe you did not intend. If this Elmo really did recieve the faith unto salvation, he is not going to fall away seeing as how salvation does not rest upon the works of man but rather the finished work of Christ Jesus. And His work is complete, eternal, lacking nothing. If salvation rested upon anything other than this, then your point would be well taken, and we should find ourselves hiding from the world trembling for fear of losing that which we now know to be permanent. It is permanent not because of man but because of the sovereign work of our Sovereign God. The verb used for faith in Eph. 2:8 and again for believe in John 3:16 is from the Greek pistis. It means far more than a mere mental movement. It conveys the sense of a total and absolute commitment to God of all we are, or ever will be, and all we have, or ever will have. It carries with it the sense of being a bondslave, as Paul refers to himself. Thus, if Elmo believes (pistis/pisteuo), then he is not making a mere mental movement but a commitment of such proportions as to turn his entire life around for eternity. This does not mean that Christians do not sin; we do. There is still the flesh that we must battle as Paul clearly points out in Romans 7. And we have to fight being drawn out by the enemy who uses our flesh against us. And for this, we have a God who has made provision for us. John makes the point that if we repent (we aren't talking remorse here), then God is faithful and just to forgive us. But our salvation is eternally secure at all points once we have committed through faith. When we sin after salvation, what is in jeopardy is our rewards and not our salvation. If our salvation was in jeopardy, then this would mean that something is lacking from the work of Christ. Often, people can have a deep and sincere feeling of remorse, but let's not confuse remorse with repentance. Remorse never precludes turning away from the Faith in the furture. And God does not require remorse; He requires repentance. Repentance is a complete turning away from sin and all that is of the "old man" toward the "new creature" in Christ and Faith. Repentance is not something that we are naturally inclined to; therefore, God gives us the faith necessary for repentance that leads to salvation. As for Elmo, based upon the story you have used as an example, and only because this is an example, I would say that Elmo never repented. He suffered a case of severe remorse that enabled him under his own power to change for a season. But once that season ended and temptation came, he not only fell into sin, he fell away from the Faith. Thus, Elmo's original confession of faith was based on a human work and not the work of God. It was the finished work of Elmo and not the finished work of Christ. In conclusion, let restate my position again. The assurance of our salvation is not predicated upon any works of man but rather the finished and eternally sufficient work of Christ Jesus. Salvation is not based upon anything we can do, but rather upon the sovereign work of our Sovereign God. It is by God's grace (unmerited kindness) that we have salvation through faith. And in fact, even the faith to believe is not of human origin; it is a gift of God. It is this faith that leads us to repent, turning from our former lives to the new life in Christ Jesus. Through this salvation, we become the children of God, and through the Spirit of adoption, we take our position in Christ as the sons and daughters of God, heirs of God and co-heirs with Jesus Christ. Yours in Christ, Gene Gross