Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wuarchive!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: kriz@skat.usc.edu (Dennis Kriz) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: PEACE ON EARTH was (Re: Christmas...) Message-ID: Date: 7 Jan 91 04:17:39 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA Lines: 57 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article John_Graves@cellbio.duke.edu (John Graves) writes: [That Christmas is basically a co-opted pagan holiday] Christians may not know on what exact day Christ was born, but that certainly can't be used to prevent them from celebrating his birth in Bethlehem. Further, it is not a mystery that Christians began celebrating Christ's birth in December so that it would fall on Roman feast for their pagan God Jupiter. Why? Because Christians were persecuted in the early centuries AD. And they had to be seen celebrating *something* during the Roman feast day for Jupiter that fell around the winter solstice. Many pagan cultures held celebrations around the winter solstice. But certainly none of those pagan and non-Christian cultures called the holiday Christmas. And arguably none of them (except by chance) celebrated the holiday on Dec. 25th, because the solstice falls on Dec 21st. Some cultures may have celebrated their festivals a few days before or a few days after the solstice. But there simply is nothing *sacred* about Dec 25th, EXCEPT in the (western) Christian context. The selection of Dec 25th as the day for celebrating Christ's birth, was finalized by papal decree, when the Gregorian (current) calandar was implemented. That is why the Christians coming from the western Christian traditions celebrate Christmas on that day. But if we TRULY believe in the SEPARATION of Church and State, there is no reason why Dec 25th should be the day which the State celebrates a secular "Sharing-of-Gifts"/"Good Tidings" Day. Indeed, so long as the official State holiday remains being called Christmas, and falls on Dec 25th, there will be religious groups which do not follow the western Christian tradition that will complain (legitimately) that the State holiday is still too Christian. Thus insisting on the secularization of Christmas, while at the same time insisting that it remain called Christmas and remain celebrated on Dec 25th seems to me a prescription for pain and is fundamentally dishonest. There is simply no reason why the State can not celebrate a secular "Sharing of-Gifts-Day" on either Dec 21st or the 4th Monday of December. And ultima- tely, the nations retailers could care little if a fully secularized Father Yule, would come on Dec 25th, or the other two days mentioned. So that arrangement would promise to make everybody happier. Presumably non-Christians would be happy, because the holiday would be fully separated from Christian tradition. And Christians would be happy, because they would be allowed to celebrate the birth of their savior in peace, as for instance Yom Kippur is celebrated in peace by the Jewish community in this country. dennis kriz@skat.usc.edu