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From: simmonds@demon.siemens.com (Tom Simmonds)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: RE: Are Zen enlightened people superior?
Message-ID: <1991Jan4.010410.2482@nas.nasa.gov>
Date: 4 Jan 91 01:04:10 GMT
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>From: mpc@mpccl.ksu.edu (Michael Campbell)
>Subject: Are Zen enlightened people superior than others?

>along the lines of (not exact words) "I'm not a Korean Picasso.  I'm 
>better than Picasso, because of my Zen enlightement."  

>My question is, would someone who has acheived Zen enlightenment make 
>such a boast?  

Definitely not.  First of all, it sounds like ego talking, and Zen aims to 
abandon egoistic ideas.  Secondly, value judgments are a result of
delusion, according to most of the Zen literature I've read.  If your
quote reflects what he really said, I'd say he's a fraud.

"There are no inferior bamboos in the forest."  (from Zen Flesh, Zen Bones)

>Do people who have acheived enlightenment think themselves
>better than other people?  Do they consider themselves lower or even
>equal?

Zen enlightenment requires the abandonment of the concept that there is
some "self" or ego-substance.  That being the case, it would not be
possible for an enlightened Zen Buddhist to think that his "self"
is better than, worse than, or equal to some other "self" without
instantly plunging into delusion.

According to the Vajracchedika Sutra, a text very heavily quoted by Zen
Buddhists, a Bodhisattva who becomes attached to the idea that he has
attained something, or who clings to the idea of an ego, a person, a 
being, or a soul, is no longer a Bodhisattva.

In addition to that, the same sutra and others assert that all sentient
beings are, by nature, already in Nirvana, and it is only delusion that
prevents them from realizing it.  When delusion is eliminated, what is
already there is self-evident.  There is nothing attained, since it has
been there all along.  There is nothing gained, and no reason to feel
that something has somehow become better.



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 ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
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 ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
  ))))))) "True beauty consists in purity of heart." - Mahatma Gandhi ))))))))