Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod!usc!orion.oac.uci.edu!ucivax!gateway From: jdravk@speech2.cs.cmu.edu (Jeanette Dravk) Newsgroups: soc.feminism Subject: Re: Woman/Man Space Message-ID: <9101141810.AA16931@rutgers.edu> Date: 14 Jan 91 22:50:46 GMT References: <9101141527.AA28831@easynet.crl.dec.com> Organization: Barbie's Dream Dungeon Lines: 83 Approved: tittle@ics.uci.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: blanche.ics.uci.edu In article <9101141527.AA28831@easynet.crl.dec.com> baranski@meridn.enet.dec.com (Jim Baranski) writes: &-Message-Text-Follows- & &In article <9101072052.AA04724@rutgers.edu>, jdravk@speech2.cs.cmu.edu (Jeanette Dravk) writes... & &The primary goals of these groups (like any therapy) is to get them to &accept and like themselves again, and to understand that all people &who are are *not* abusive or "out ot get them"." & &This reasoning does not extend to all womens-only groups. Not all &womens-only groups are of this type, what about womens-only groups &which are not of this type? Hi Jim! If you'd read my posts carefully you'd have noticed that I was careful to state that I believe this situation was pertinent *only* to theraputic groups ... *not* social clubs. Well, anyway, now you know so I know you'll sleep better tonight! &And I don't think all the groups that are men-only are power hungery &organizations bent on oppressing women either... but I still don't &support them. So you don't support the Boy Scouts? Or pro football/basketball/soccer teams? I'm sorry to hear that! And I never said I thought all men-only groups were power-hungry whatevers either. As a matter of fact I've said that I think they're very necessary too! Sorry you seem to have missed all of this!! Ah well.... &"So let's try your idea. Why not have crisis groups for white people &who suffer from being the instigators of racism? How do you propose &to overcome their built up defenses and the habits/nurturing of a &lifetime by having blacks/Jews whatever in the group?" & &As sarcasitic as your idea is, I think that we do need to do just &that, and at some point at least, some of the stereotyped group need &to be included to 'practice on', and to show the fearfull ones that ¬ all of the stereotyped group are bad. Hmmm... all this and sarcasm too! I'm glad you noticed! At least you remembered what I said and agreed with it. Maybe I should use it more often so parts of my posts don't get skipped over? But anyways ... I don't see the point of that for several reasons ... a) you're never going to have everyone in the group at the same emotional level -- everyone will progress towards the goal at their own pace -- also, dont' forget you'll constantly be adding/dropping members. The new ones will be significantly further behind than the others .. my point? You can't garantee that everyone will be at a point where they are ready for that sort of thing. and, b) why? The point of the -only space is that it is a homogenous atmosphere which normally does not happen in our society -- not only that, but it is also supposed to function as a place of security where the members can feel "safe" and supported. By invading that space as you propose .. even if it's "somewhere down the line" you are erasing the illusion that this is a place where the can feel they have some privacy and security ... which is totally unnecessary since, after all, the members see these in their normal daily lives -- having them practise "in real life" would be much more beneficial [for both the trauma group and the stereotyped group] than anything artifically inserted into the group might be. Before you start to get really serious about this, I strongly recommend that you read some books on group dynamics and group therapy first. If you like, I can recommend some books for you to start on .. but probably any standard psychology refernce will do to start with. &Jim. hey! I'm being stereotyped! j- welcome to the club. admission is free, but it'll cost you your soul to leave. -- #*#*#*#*#*# Transient Creature of the Wide, Wild World #*#*#*#*#*#*#* "Time is not linear to me, it is a nebulous web of existential freedom."