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From: acsghgk@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Hanif Khalak)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: Message of Islam (part7: final part)
Keywords: Islam: a complete code
Message-ID: <1991Jan10.182535.6995@nntp-server.caltech.edu>
Date: 10 Jan 91 18:25:35 GMT
Sender: bes@nntp-server.caltech.edu (Behnam Sadeghi)
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Lines: 91
Approved: bes@tybalt.caltech.edu


In article <1991Jan5.104338.18096@nntp-server.caltech.edu>, ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes...
> 
>In article <1990Dec21.144253.16587@wpi.WPI.EDU> mmirza@ee.eng.ohio-state.edu (Muhammad Mirza) writes:
>>
>>             ISLAM:  A COMPLETE CODE OF LIFE
>>
>>	A little earlier, I mentioned that Islam represents a whole
>>civilization, a complete culture, and a comprehensive world order. It
>>provides moral guidance in all walks of life.  That is why Islamic
>>values are not for the ascetic who renounces the world, but for him
>>who actively participates in different spheres of life, and works
>>within them.  The moral values which people look for in convents,
>>monasteries, and cloisters are presented by Islam right in the current
>>of life.  Heads of government, governors of states, judges, members of
> 
>Sorry to say, but it's very naive to assume that you could establish
>a world order based on *one* single religion. If we look at Islam today,
>how many different sects do we have? Why does Islam brothers and sisters
>fight against each other - even if they belong to the same tribe, same
>religion (Iran-Iraq war, Beirut)?
> 

	What sorts of 'multiple-order systems' run the universe?  If 
there were more than one truth in THIS universe -- e.g. 2+2=4 AND 
2+2=3 -- then maybe I'd agree with you in a small sense.
	You suggest a look-see at the status of contemporary Islam... 
this is a meaningless statement in the context from which you began.  
When you talk about Islam, you talk about a value system.. not the 
implementation/corruption/wholesale hypocrisy of the humanity thereof.  
This value system is (religiously) not a product of humans, therefore 
not dependent upon or subject to their inherent weakness.  In Islam, 
there is no such thing as a SECT.  There are different schools of 
scholarship which arrive at conclusions with small discrepancy.  It is 
Haram [* unlawful *] for Muslims to kill each other.  Disregarding these 
principles does not eliminate them, it merely leads to the problems 
which obviously arise when humans take it upon themselves to be as 
stupid as they possible can be.


>It is the nature of the human being to question an official dogma, and
>start a movement against the common doctrine. This happen in all areas,
>religion, politics, computers, fashion, music.
> 

	It is the nature of the human being to be selfish, to be 
irresponsible, to be violent, to indulge.  I'm not sure what this type 
of statement leads.. in a meaningful way.


>We could even create a future picture, where Islam is the main binding
>force in the civilization of the Earth. Well, for how long? Maybe 40-60
>years, and a splinter group in Mid-Europe starts a separatist movement
>with a different idea about the central role of the spiritual leader.
>Does it sound familiar (like Christianity)?
> 

	Actually, I doubt that Mid-Europe will be the place.. most 
likely in Asia (East).  West is WE're STatus quo.  :)  Again, humans 
are undoubtedly due to make mistakes.. all kinds.  Does this mean that 
what is right can be rejected/disregarded?


>Personally I think that we will have a lot of old and new religions, it's
>just the nature of a human being to question everything and build 
>new world models.
> 

	In my understanding of human history, all peoples have thought 
they have done something great/new/wonderful/unprecedented/etc.  Ego 
is an interesting thing.  Learning from history hasn't stopped people 
from plagiarizing one bit.  Freedom, spirituality, beauty, science, 
philosophy, art, intellectualism, progress, materialism, economics, 
power, brutality, crime, subjugation, corruption, mindlessness, 
arrogance, pride, conceit and evil.  All are as old as humanity.  'New 
world models' is a euphemism of 'my two bits'.


>This are my private thoughts.
> 

	Responded to with my own (not really private), with due 
respect, hopefully.


>Regards,
>Kent Sandvik


Peace be unto you,
Hanif