Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wuarchive!hsdndev!husc6!husc8!cleary
From: cleary@husc8.harvard.edu (Kenneth Cleary)
Newsgroups: comp.arch
Subject: Re: Sun != Open Archtecture
Message-ID: <5353@husc6.harvard.edu>
Date: 16 Jan 91 10:41:27 GMT
Sender: news@husc6.harvard.edu
Reply-To: cleary@husc8.UUCP (Kenneth Cleary)
Organization: /etc/organization
Lines: 34

In article <4139@osc.COM> jgk@osc.COM (Joe Keane) writes:
>Sun is behaving like a spoiled brat in this case.  Part of the problem is that
>they missed the boat and spent a lot of time on NeWS and SunWindows, which
>people didn't really want it.  Maybe they should learn that just because you
>have more engineers doesn't make people want your product.  You can argue the
>technical merits X vs. NeWS vs. SunView, but the main point is that Sun got
>shut multiple times.  Because of all this, they have decided to be perverse
>and not give its customers what they want.

Excuse me, but... there are customers who see another side to OSF.  I have no
intention of defending SunView or NeWS, because I don't like them.  However,
if I want to develop code for OpenLook, and port it to whichever machine, Sun
or AT&T won't stop me.  They have included everything needed to do this in the 
X11 distribution (XView & olwm).  (Yes, I know it is not public domain...)
For people wanting to develop in Motif, they have to shell out the bucks ahead
of time, before they get to really look at it, and from following the 
discussion in comp.windows.x.motif this has not been gratifying for some.
The stated mission of OSF seems to be avoidance of monopolistic control over
crucial technologies (i.e. fear of AT&T).  However, if you look at the
companies signing into OSF (IBM, DEC, etc.) you see the old masters of the
proprietary technology game, who enjoyed being able to lock customers in.
On the other hand, I see Sun constantly allowing others to use its technology
without charge (XView, olwm, NFS, etc).  Now the folks at OSF are trying to
lock technology up, so that they can charge admission, and they have the
audacity to cry foul at Sun for not wanting give control to the old 
robber-barons of proprietary technology.  Could it be that the robber-barons
are concerned that Sun gives too much away for free?  Are the robber-barons
(with the business mentality) unable to cope with organizations like Sun
(with an engineering mindset), or AT&T (with a scientific mindset)?

If we are talking giving the customers what they want, how about putting the
source code for everything needed to build OSF/Motif out in the public?
Why put so much effort into getting proprietary code out of Mach, just so you
can lock it up again?