Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!usc!jarthur!ucivax!gateway From: ag1v+@andrew.cmu.EDU ("Andrea B. Gansley-Ortiz") Newsgroups: soc.feminism Subject: Re: sexist space Message-ID: Date: 17 Jan 91 15:42:32 GMT References: <9012052040.AA03835@decpa.pa.dec.com> <1991Jan5.044751.19198@ora.com>, <11119@helios.TAMU.EDU> Lines: 50 Approved: tittle@ics.uci.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: blanche.ics.uci.edu Willis Marti (willis@cs.tamu.edu) in the article <11119@helios.TAMU.EDU> writes: =Reading over my comments, I realize I may have missed one point. It =is OK (IMHO) to identify disadvantaged groups and provide special, =direct assistance. I don't believe women as a group (or men or blacks =or browns or...) qualify. What leads you to the conclusion that these groups that you mention are not underprivledged. From my own personal experience in women's groups, I understand now what people say about women not speaking up in front of men, or not being able to participate in a conversation. One of the things we worked on was assertiveness. How to react to eachother in a positive, assertive way. And just being able to learn the skill allows one to practice it outside of the small community of women where it was learned. It used to be if I was in a group of men, I almost never said a word. Now I am much more able to speak my mind. I attribute this directly to the work I've done with a woman's group. My mother used to work with underprivledged children in high school where she works. Most of those children were black and hispanic. They are disadvantaged, as a group in a number of ways. A poor home life that doesn't emphasize getting an education, non-use of drugs, or realistic goals. The school systems are not designed to give these students an equal chance of learning with white students. The standardized tests are aimed at middle class white U.S.A. without taking into consideration that a different community will know no less than another, but rather have a different set of knowledge being given to the children. A couple years ago a black man redid the standard IQ test in such a way that it centered on a black community's knowledge. The results were that blacks scored above average while whites/other minorities did not score as well. I haven't heard anything about this in a couple years and have since lost the man's name. In a similar vein, parents have double standards between their boys and girls. Men will take thier sons out to play baseball while leaving the girl home, regardless of the interest either express in the game. This is the subtle conditioning that goes on every day from the time the parents ask, "Is it a girl/boy?" This is getting too long so I'll stop now. All constructive comments are appreciated. ag