Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!bonnie.concordia.ca!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!wuarchive!julius.cs.uiuc.edu!psuvax1!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!christian From: conan@herb-ox.berkeley.edu (David Cruz-Uribe) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Do dead saints interact with us? Message-ID: Date: 16 Jan 91 08:58:56 GMT Sender: hedrick@aramis.rutgers.edu Organization: U.C. Berkeley Math. Department. Lines: 34 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu I would like to follow up on the question raised by Barry Olson on the saints by expanding on the example of St. Agnes of Bohemia. In the formal canonization process of the Roman Catholic church, no less than two miracles attributable to the intervention of the saint must be demonstrated--that is, good evidence must be given that the intervention of the saint was sought in prayer and that these prayers were answered by a miracle. (Perhaps this is the case with Czechoslovakia--who am I to say?) Now let's look at the two options that Barry speculates on: first, that the saint has nothing to do with it, and that God answers the prayer. This is actually quite close to how Catholics view it: God answers all prayers and works all miracles. It is just that in His mercy, God chooses to work through all manner of vehicles, and will listen to prayers from all sources--including the saints in Heaven. If, however, the saints have nothing to do with it, then why does God answer a woefully misdirected prayer and do nothing to correct (as opposed to encourage) this mistake? Second, Barry speculates that Demons (fallen angels) actually intercept the prayer and respond. Here however, we must assume that Demons have the power to work miracles and create good in God's name. Surely this is a Manichean view of things! Evil can never create--it can only twist and pervert and destroy. Now, this is clear not a firm basis on which to base prayers "to" saints. But I think the evidence of the miracles attributed to their intervention needs to be considered. Yours in Christ, David Cruz-Uribe, SFO P.S. It's good to be back on the net after a long hiatus. Peace and greetings to those who were here when I left!