Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!nwnexus!amc-gw!john From: john@amc-gw.amc.com (John Sambrook) Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp Subject: Re: Is this the end of the lisp wave? Message-ID: <5107@amc-gw.amc.com> Date: 24 Jan 91 20:50:51 GMT References: <17374@csli.Stanford.EDU> <15948@sdcc6.ucsd.edu> Reply-To: john@amc-gw.amc.com (John Sambrook) Organization: Applied Microsystems, Redmond, WA Lines: 49 [ Warning -- Longish, kind of whiney article ahead :-] I've been following the "Lisp is dying! / No it's not!" discussion with interest. I've also had very good experiences using Common Lisp to develop prototypes of programs that no one would consider "AI" programs. However, I can also say that I have found Common Lisp useful for prototyping programs that could be considered to be "AI" programs. For example, I recently completed a Common Lisp prototype of a memory disassembler for a new high-performance RISC chip. Of course, for delivery I had to recode it in C, but I believe that much time was saved by doing a prototype first. Certainly the delivered version of the disassembler has been virtually bug-free and is well-structured and maintainable to boot. I am also using Common Lisp to experiment with new approaches to trace disassembly. While I can't explain trace disassembly in detail here, suffice it to say that it involves correlating a lot of observed data with a model of how a particular microprocessor behaves in order to generate an annotated list of the machine instructions that were executed to produce the observed data. It's a hard problem that ultimately requires the ability to be able to represent knowledge in a compact form, and to be able to do a fair amount of reasoning based on the data and the model. Common Lisp is a great environment in which to do this. I only wish I had a commercial Common Lisp and CLOS in which to do this. Right now I am using AKCL on a Solbourne 4-501 with GNU Emacs. Not bad, but not ideal either. I haven't been able to get a PCL working though. I have some literature from a couple of the major Common Lisp vendors, but I doubt that I will be able to secure the funding to purchase one of their systems. Unfortunately, there does not seem to be much interest within our company for looking at programming in any other language than C and/or assembler. In general, most of our engineers seem to be quite satisfied with the status quo. While there are a few engineers that are interested in doing more with Lisp, many of our senior engineers routinely ignore suggestions to consider using Lisp for certain problems where Lisp would appear to be a good fit. I'd be interested in hearing from other individuals who have been able to introduce Lisp into an engineering environment. While it's not my role to be a Lisp evangelist, I feel some responsibility to improve productivity within our company, and I think Lisp would be useful in this respect. -- John Sambrook DNS: john@amc.com Applied Microsystems Corporation UUCP: amc-gw!john Redmond, Washington 98073 Dial: (206) 882-2000 ext. 630