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From: mark@unix386.Convergent.COM (Mark Nudelman)
Newsgroups: talk.origins,sci.bio
Subject: strength of primates
Message-ID: <5704@unix386.Convergent.COM>
Date: 28 Jan 91 02:27:56 GMT
Organization: Unisys/Convergent, San Jose, CA
Lines: 37

For some time, Ted Holden has been making some rather controversial,
to put it mildly, assertions in talk.origins.  One of the things
his argument seems to rest on is the relative strength of various 
animals.  To pick a specific example, Ted asserts that weightlifter 
Bill Kazmeier is stronger than any other similarly-sized animal.
In particular, Ted asserts that Mr. Kazmeier is stronger than any
gorilla, and that no gorilla could ever lift (from a squat) a
weight of over 1000 pounds.  Ted, is this a fair representation 
of your view?  If this assertion were proven incorrect, how much 
of your theory would have to be revised?

For the rest of you, can anyone come up with a good reference to
the fact that a gorilla is far stronger than any human?  I spent a
little time in my local library where I found several anecdotal 
statements that a chimp is about 3 times as strong as a human, 
and a gorilla about 16 times as strong as a human.  Jane Goodall 
noted that she had a difficult time securing a stash of bananas 
from wild chimps, as they would keep tearing steel handles off 
the boxes the bananas were kept in, and snapping "strong" steel
cables.  A story is told of a chimp who was brought to England and
shown to a professional wrestler and animal trainer, who while the
chimp was distracted, attempted to leap on the chimp and throw him
to the ground.  The wrestler was instead thrown over the chimp's
head; the wrestler said it was the first time in his career that 
both shoulders touched the ground at the same time.  Another story 
told of a baby gorilla who someone tried to raise in an ordinary 
house, but the experiment had to be modified as the gorilla found 
it could easily pass through closed doors by pushing on the door 
with its shoulder, which would dislodge the door from the doorframe.

While stories like this seem to be evidence against Ted's thesis,
I'd prefer better documented and more quantitative data.  Does 
anyone know of any scientific studies measuring the strength of
chimpanzees or gorillas?  

Mark Nudelman
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