Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!samsung!uunet!zephyr.ens.tek.com!tektronix!sequent!ether!bug!stevef
From: stevef@bug.UUCP (Steven R Fordyce)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics
Subject: Re: HELP!
Summary: AC can kill!
Keywords: AC, DC
Message-ID: <230@bug.UUCP>
Date: 21 Jan 91 03:12:29 GMT
References: <1991Jan19.052458.7449@wam.umd.edu> <1991Jan19.075940.26652@zoo.toronto.edu> <55124@eerie.acsu.Buffalo.EDU>
Reply-To: stevef@bug.UUCP (Steven R Fordyce)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Handmade Designs, Salem, OR.
Lines: 44

In article <55124@eerie.acsu.Buffalo.EDU> visjames@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu writes:
>In article <1991Jan19.075940.26652@zoo.toronto.edu>, henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes...
...
>>charged with assault is a much more serious nuisance.  Laying physically
>>dangerous traps for trespassers -- which is more or less what you're
>>proposing, with the nature of the trespass being a little unusual -- is
>>highly illegal, regardless of provocation.  Use of deadly or potentially
>>deadly force in self-defence is legal only when you have immediate reason
>>to fear death or maiming.  We're talking years in prison here.
>
>   Wrong-o.  If it's wired properly it should severly shock the person and
>throw them back from the window.  These are AC systems.  The onces that kill
>are DC systems.

Guess again.  It is current through the body that kills.  It makes no
difference whether it is AC or DC, just that there is enough voltage to get
the current to flow through the body.

>   I would thik that a 60 volt, 4 amp system (AC) with a warning sign woould
>be ok.

More than enough to kill him, yes!  Actually what will kill depends on a
lot of things I don't pretent to know (where it flows through the body and
such).  If I remember correctly, currents above some level (surprisingly
small, ~20mA) can cause heart failure, some intermediate range (which I
can't remember, but it is something like 500 mA to 4 Amps) is actually less
dangerous (but not safe exactly), and then above that range the current
can causes burns.  "Can" is not the same as "will" (we are individuals
after all).  And just because someone was exposed to so much voltage and
current, it doesn't necessarily mean that that current went though him.

>   On a side note today I was useing a metal saw (electric,recripicating(sp))
>and cut through an electrical feed.  The power company said it was off, but
>I hit a like 220 volt power feed (where it enters the house, before the breaker)
>it melted the blade, it melted about 1"x2"x1/16" of high tempered steel.  
>Powerful, lots of sparks, and a shock, but I was copletely unharmed (one hand
>was on an insulated portion of the saw, the other wasn't).  Anyway., I think
>you can see it's possable to shock the s*it out of someone and not hurt them.

Besides luck, the reason you are not dead, is that the saw is grounded, so
most of the current went through the cord and not through you.
-- 

uunet!sequent!ether!bug!stevef	  I am the NRA		Steven R. Fordyce