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From: !simnet@ssc-vax (Mark R Poulson)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: Using the rifle suited to the previous war?
Summary: wound ballistics, Fackler
Message-ID: <1991Jan25.034021.12744@cbnews.att.com>
Date: 25 Jan 91 03:40:21 GMT
References: <1991Jan5.021828.27885@cbnews.att.com> <1991Jan19.040239.4164@cbnews.att.com>
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From: !simnet@ssc-vax (Mark R Poulson)

In article <1991Jan19.040239.4164@cbnews.att.com>, andy@Theory.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman) writes:
> From: andy@Theory.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman)

I wrote:
>>There are two important areas to consider ballistically. First, wounds are
>>usualy much more severe when the bullet strikes its target with a velocity
>>greater than 2100 f/s (the speed of sound in water/flesh).

   .
   .
Discussion of shock waves, crushing, ripping/tearing, temporary/permanent
cavity formation deleted.
   .
   .
> This info comes from the U.S. Army's expert in wound ballistics,
> Col Martin Fackler, M.D., at the Presido.
> 
> -andy

Most of Fackler's discussions that I've read deal with velocities common to
pistol cartridges (i.e. is a 1500f/s .357 Magnum much superior to a 1100f/s
9mm).  Dr. Fackler always seems to indicate that velocity (by itself) doesn't
seem to have that big of a permanent effect. I agree with this theory until
the velocities approach 2100f/s. After this point, I don't feel a 2800f/s
bullet is superior to a 2200f/s bullet -- 2100f/s is a threshold for some
(unknown?) phenomenon.

Many respected people with combat experience support the 2100f/s theory. Chuck
Taylor and (now deceased) Mel Tappan are two I can thing of off the top of my
head.  A deer hunter can also tell you that "lightning bolt" kills don't
happen with the 30-30 or .44 Magnum, but they do happen with high velocity
rifles. I don't know what the specific effect is but many believe something
changes around 2100f/s. I alluded to this being the speed of sound in water,
which another poster indicated was way off. I got that "fact" from rec.guns
and I did not check it; this has probably reduced my credibility.

Final food for thought: Some US Congressman or Senator has a left arm that
doesn't work (?Alexander Haig?). This is because he was shot in the shoulder
in WWII by a "high velocity" rifle. I can't see how an 8mm hole could destroy
all the nerves for an entire arm by itself. Perhaps the high velocity shock
from the bullet destroyed all the nerves for that arm....

		Mark @
		..uw-beaver!ssc-bee!simnet