Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: johnw@stew.ssl.berkeley.edu (John Warren) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: FAITH AND WORKS Message-ID: Date: 27 Jan 91 08:54:42 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: University of California, Berkeley Lines: 97 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article blosser@lrc.uucp writes: >Jan. 19, 1991 > >From another perspective, >however-- and this can certainly be supported biblically-- there is no faith >apart from works (James). Protestants typically distinguish the two by saying >that true faith is never alone, that works follow in the train of true faith; >and thereby they permit themselves to retain the claim that works are wholly >incidental to salvation, that salvation is based entirely on Christ's grace >appropriated by faith. But I've come to see a problem in that. True: there is no faith apart from works. But what kind of works, and with what motivation? Are these works acts whereby you hang your body on "thus says the Lord", i.e., claiming God's promises for your particular situation? For example, God said, "I will never leave you nor forsake you." When a disciple hears the call of God to do whatever, and subsequently gets discouraged and wants to quit, faith grabs this promise and continues on. If you're poor and yet you read in Malachi that God says you're robbing Him if you're not delivering the tithes to His storehouse (i.e., the place or teacher where you are taught God's word), and He also says that if you deliver these tithes He will pour out blessing you can't contain, faith sees this as a promise and starts tithing to the storehouse. Faith hangs onto God's promise that the Lord will provide. Faith participates in the physical act, the focus, called the communion, with the perspective that God's gift of grace and forgiveness (symbolized by the blood/wine) is free, unmerited, and so also is His gift of healing (symbolized by the bread/body). (By the way, the way you prepare for communion is NOT by looking at your own unworthiness, but by looking at Christ's worthiness. No one is ever worthy to partake.) These works do not include, for example, forcing yourself not to hate, keeping your body healthy, going to church every sunday, circumcision, vegetarianism, feeding the poor, etc. It's the attitude that counts. You cannot become righteous by trying, even if it involves feeding the poor. You may have fed many poor people, or built houses for them, but that does not make you more righteous. It is either a fruit of righteousness, or legalism. You become righteous by hanging your body in faith on a promise of God, every day. The righteousness which will result (i.e., sanctification) is not in any way cooperation between you and the Lord. The way to grow righteousness is by sowing the seeds of faith. >First, whatever the precise relationship between them, there are two things >that are unequivocally commanded by God through Scripture, tradition, and >Church: (a) faith in Christ, and (b) good works. And it is unequivocally >clear that God expects BOTH of those whom He claims as His children. He also promises to, as it were, put those good works into us, for our faith. Our responsibility is to act in faith. Remember to rightly define faith. >Now, what's the point? This: if salvation was purely a matter of juridically >imputing the righteousness of Christ to the sinner, and not also a matter >conditional upon the actual transformation of the sinner, by degrees, into >a Saint by the cooperation of his or her own efforts, then why should we >trouble ourselves with trying to be Christlike? Exactly!! We shouldn't! That's Christ's job. He plants His life in us for our faith. Faith is not equivalent to belief. Belief is only the mental part of faith. But acts of faith are completely different from trying to be Christlike. >The argument isn't over the existence of a place called Purgatory. It's >over what's necessary for salvation. And if we see that God wants us pure >in heaven, that He expects us to struggle towards that perfection in this >life, and that we shouldn't presume that He's going to somehow magically >do the work of transforming our inclinations and dispositions for us, then >we must say that there is a sense in which we must cooperate with God in >"working out our salvation, knowing that it is God who works in us." (Phil.) Yes, if he wants us to struggle towards that perfection in this life. But he doesn't. The extreme protestant view has missed the point by saying that we don't have to do anything; however, the extreme catholic misplaces our efforts. We work out our salvation by phobia and trauma (rough cognates of the actual greek words); that is, we should fear lest, a promise being left to us, we should fail to take hold of it (rough translation of somewhere around Heb. 11). We should fear to fall into one single day without acting in faith. Yesterday's faith doesn't count for today. >We must find ourselves on our knees at the foot of the cross, confident >in Christ's promises, yet not presuming upon his mercy. In fear and trembling >we must seek those good works that are the fruit of our faith and the necessary >condition of our sanctification and eventual entree into the birthing chambers >of heaven. > >Regards, >Phil Don't put the fruit below the trunk and roots. Don't put the cart before the horse. Good works are not the necessary condition of our sanctification. All they are are a sign. If your works aren't measuring up (on that personal standard between you and God, more important than any external standard), then that is probably a sign that you aren't faithing, and thus not connected to the Source of life. John Warren ". . . Into the narrow lanes, I can't stumble or stay put." - Dylan