Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!caen!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!lll-winken!sun-barr!apple!agate!shelby!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: lindborg@cs.washington.edu (Jeff Lindborg) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Soul winners Message-ID: Date: 29 Jan 91 08:24:48 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: University of Washington Computer Science Lines: 80 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article psburns@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (MAUREEN BURNS) writes: >In article , lindborg@cs.washington.edu (Jeff Lindborg) writes... >> >> As an agnostic >> Hence, according to Christian doctrin, a large percentage of >>humanity will be spending eternity in hell... eternal punishment for >>the sins commited within a single life time. >> Put me down as uninpressed... >> >>Jeff Lindborg >>"Agnostic with an attitude." > > I am curious. If you are a professed agnostic, why are scanning the >postings under the Christian heading? Mostly for my own entertainment. >I suspect that there is a true >interest in what we have to say. Of course there is or I wouldn't be reading it. Your implication that I find any of it based on truth is way off the mark however. >But, if you are a true agnostic, do you >find your blood boiling at what we say? Don't flatter yourself. My blood doesn't boil at what you say. If you really want to make me mad, get into power politics and the religious right (they tick me off). If anyone is interested try reading "God's Bullies"... an excellent look into just how much power the religious right is capable of weilding (and using in questionable ways). > BTW, according to Christian doctrine, it is true that a large percentage >of humanity will spend eternity in hell, not because of the sins committed >within a single lifetime, but because of a refusal to accept the sin >payment of Christ's death on the cross as a total and complete satisfaction >for God's perfect justice. I realize that. I also realize the notion of being 'born into sin' hence removing any possibility of avoiding hell ("NO man comes unto the father BUT BY ME.") on your own. You have, of course, completely avoided my comment. I don't care HOW the people end up in hell, just that they do. My contention was the God's motivation for creating humanity for His own entertainment is quite questionable. Why does He feel the need to punish those who cannot/will not believe/whorship Him when he supposedely gave us 'free will'. Since MOST of us (according to you) will spend eternity in maximum agony I must question the "kindness, and compassion" of you God. Is He indeed worthy of worship or is He a spiteful and sadistic? You make the call. >Of course, that doesn't mean that sin nature is gone. Christians still sin >and disappoint God and each other. But the forgiveness is always there. >Why take a chance on your eternity? Why not be sure of eternity with a >loving, holy and perfect God who desires your presence in heaven with him? >He's speaking to your heart right now. Get right with the Lord. Since I spent over 22 years as a Christian I recognize THIS attitude quite well. "It may all be a load of crap but why not play it safe?" This SHOULD be quite offensive to any real Christians on the net. Typical scare tactics nonsense. I believe that there is no life after death (just like the Jews did up until around 250 BCE, read your Old Testament CAREFULLY) just as firmly as you believe there is. I may be wrong but I REFUSE to force myself to believe in something that I find moraly corrupt and intellectualy offensive. Dogma is always bad, no matter what form it comes in. There may indeed be a god, but if it is the god you describe I doubt very much that he is either perfect or loving. >I hope to meet you in heaven... Appreciate the sentiment, although I can't return it. The idea of living FOREVER in any state is my definition of a hell... >Maureen Burns Jeff Lindborg "Wont Heave get boring after a while..." -Binky -Life In Hell