Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!bonnie.concordia.ca!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!newstop!texsun!convex!news
From: tchrist@convex.COM (Tom Christiansen)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl
Subject: Re: Standard Distribution
Keywords: bundled UNIX
Message-ID: <1991Feb05.111212.12131@convex.com>
Date: 5 Feb 91 11:12:12 GMT
References: <893@ticnj.UUCP>
Sender: news@convex.com (news access account)
Reply-To: tchrist@convex.COM (Tom Christiansen)
Organization: CONVEX Software Development, Richardson, TX
Lines: 59
Nntp-Posting-Host: pixel.convex.com

From the keyboard of srs@ticnj.UUCP (Scott Strool):
:I have been hacking with perl for a few months and find it very useful
:and extremely powerful. I try to use it wherever I can, but have a problem
:convincing others its purpose. One arguement is that if it is so good
:then why isn't it part of a standard UNIX package. Has anyone been interested
:in making part of the group of standard UNIX development tools, i.e lex awk
:sed etc. One reason management is reluctant to write stuff with perl is
:because they have the burden of insuring it is on the target system.
:Fo in house stuff its great but for systems that are to be delivered it 
:could be trouble.

I understand the dilemma.  My solution was to make it part of the standard
distribution, bundled up along with /bin/cat.  Now all Convex customers
are guaranteed to have it on their Convexen, and anywhere else, since we
ship it with source.  Rick Adams has an amusing comment that the real
reason they did this was because it was easier than arguing with me any
more.  He may have something there. :-)

In any event, we at Convex can (and do) now freely use perl to write
utilities, sysadmin support tools, install scripts, diagnostic scripts,
test suites, plus plenty more, and we can be assured that perl will be
there both for internal use and for customer use.  Since most of these
were written in sh or (ug) csh before, it's truly a breath of fresh air.

I'm absolutely convinced that perl is destined to join that list of tools
you mentioned, like lex, yacc, sed, awk, and sh.  The only question is
when.  If history is any example, it'll show up first on the BSD tape
(probably the fabled 4.4 release).  Shortly thereafter it will come with
Sun distributions.  Or maybe Sun will do so even shortly before BSD if
Kolstad is half the evangelist I am :-).  Didn't I just read somewhere how
some Sun salesman was giving out perl to his customers?

I fear, however, that only after many years will we see it from AT&T, at
least for customer shipments.  Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if some
of the folks sequestered at Murray Hill were already using perl, but the
migration path from Research Version X (and other sources) to System VrY
seems very long:  think how long it took for them to get virtual memory.
This is a problem, because too much of the non-university world thinks
(to their loss, IMHO) that only AT&T makes UNIX.  I don't think we'll
be seeing 1003.2 or 1003.7 taking up perl any time real soon now, so 
POSIX standards won't help.  (Nor would I want to see what POSIX would
do to perl.)

One thing I've been trying to learn is how many other vendors, either
hardware or software (and what size customer base) ship perl with their
product.  Anyone know of any besides us?  

So how to get perl more widely distributed as standard software?  If you
work for a vendor, you could lobby internally for it.  If you're a
customer, you can send in enhancement requests (we call then "wishes"
here) to have perl included.  Maybe if enough people ask, their wish may
be granted.

--tom
--
"Still waiting to read alt.fan.dan-bernstein using DBWM, Dan's own AI
window manager, which argues with you 10 weeks before resizing your window." 
### And now for the question of the month:  How do you spell relief?   Answer:
U=brnstnd@kramden.acf.nyu.edu; echo "/From: $U/h:j" >>~/News/KILL; expire -f $U